Monstrous

Monstrous Café => Mayday! Mayday! => Topic started by: Zsniel on January 28, 2010, 02:10:04 am

Title: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on January 28, 2010, 02:10:04 am
Dose anyone know the name of a Demon that appears as a blue man with no hair and covered in writing that appears to be Babylonian.
Thanks
Z
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on January 31, 2010, 02:06:58 am
This Demon is active and hunting magicians that studie the Golden Dawn its where abouts at this time is unknown.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on January 31, 2010, 11:14:09 am
I think like LadyGriffin said, this doesn't belong here, but I'm curious...

Zsniel, if you don't know its identity, how do you know it's a demon? It could be some form of construct, since it's so dedicated to its task. (I found no info on a blue demon with writings of Babylonian origin on it...)
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on January 31, 2010, 08:55:24 pm
 8-) Maybe some nice admin could move this topic to where it belongs.
I don't know of any constructs that are capable of possesion. But like you I haven't found anything that fits the description give to me by the psychic.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on January 31, 2010, 11:47:34 pm
Wait... it was a psychic? Another reason to think it may be a construct then. Psychics develop a feel for psi (the metaphysical energy they use) and constructs are made of "programmed"psi. Theoretically, a construct can do anything the psychic can, so if the psychic is good at, let's say, telepathic suggestion in this case, the construct would be able to do it also. That's pretty close to possession, although the construct isn't bound in any way to the target.

The thing is a construct eventually dies, unless it's programmed to always gather psi to sustain itself. If it's been programmed to get the psi from another source than the psychic who made it, its existence should be independent from it and I'd expect someone skilled in such complex constructs to at least know how to gather psi from another source... Most people learn to do that when they begin training in psi manipulation...

Just a little background on the thing if it is, in fact, a construct.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 01, 2010, 02:50:05 am
I don't really want to go into detail on a public forum but the individual in question was engaged in a magickal war with a nother magician but I would like to think it would have taken more than telepathic suggestion to change the personality of someone that has practiced for over 30 years and almost destroy an entire order. the psychic is a member of the order that detected its presence not the creator.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Angelus on February 01, 2010, 09:31:51 am
Now it sounds like harry potter. I have went through books and web pages and cant find an I.D. on your blue man, it may have different forms. Might be able to get an I.D. with an M.O. Did it say anything or do anything? More info please.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 01, 2010, 03:19:29 pm
I don't really want to go into detail on a public forum but the individual in question was engaged in a magickal war with a nother magician but I would like to think it would have taken more than telepathic suggestion to change the personality of someone that has practiced for over 30 years and almost destroy an entire order. the psychic is a member of the order that detected its presence not the creator.

Sounds like the alleged magical fight between Aleister Crowley and MacGregor Mathers. When they - according to Crowley at least - where battling it out over the leadership of the Order of the Golden Dawn. This battle was about a century ago.
This Demon is active and hunting magicians that studie the Golden Dawn its where abouts at this time is unknown.

Me thinks we've got ourselves a lead. :spy:
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Countess on February 01, 2010, 04:45:32 pm
It hasn't been quite a century but both are long dead & it does sound suspisciously like the Crowley battle. This makes me think it is most like a construct as opposed to a demon since both those magicians were accomplished in psi battle especially over distance.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 01, 2010, 06:30:24 pm
I don't really want to go into detail on a public forum but the individual in question was engaged in a magickal war with a nother magician but I would like to think it would have taken more than telepathic suggestion to change the personality of someone that has practiced for over 30 years and almost destroy an entire order. the psychic is a member of the order that detected its presence not the creator.

Change the personality, huh? I read once about telepathic hacking... Kind of a more offensive way to go about it; you basically alter or destroy "mental files" like the person called them. Those metal files being memories, etc. That could change someone's personality and have a long term effect that suggestion lacks. Although it takes more influence on the target's mind, after the changes are done, they're most likely permanent, whereas suggestion has to constantly have the target's mind under its influence. The more strong minded the target is, the harder it'll be to do any of those, but on the long term, hacking would take less efforts. All that's assuming the person was right when they spoke of mental hacking.

Also, a construct that possesses various people with suggestion at a time wouldn't be very effective, since it would have to keep all those people under its influence at the same time. And the way you described it, it doesn't seem like there are more than one of those blue things...
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Countess on February 02, 2010, 05:19:04 pm
Crowley was indeed a megalomaniac as were many of his contemporaries so it is entirely possible that the "battle" was simply a story each could use to their own advantage. Crowley had a habit of "harvesting" imagery, ritual, etc from ancient religions so he may have used "harlot of babylon" I will have to look into it. One intresting comparison I find is the similarities in the rise of Crowley & Hitler through their prospective organizations. At first blush neither had the makings or appearance of leaders but both managed to lead, reform, & build their organization.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 02, 2010, 09:07:33 pm
Thankyou all for your help you have brought new perspective to the subject. And I wish I could go into more detail. But I can't on a public forum.

I have read about the combat between Crowley and Mathers but I don't think it actually happened.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 12, 2010, 12:19:40 pm
what i've learned is that not all demons have names because not all demons are fallen angels.
people can create sentient beings with enough focus, meditation, and psychic energy.
why not demons as well? this is how they build their army.

my first encounter was with a blue demon that matches the description you gave. these ones have no name because their creators haven't given them one so no one can use it to control them.
these kind will put on quite the show of aggression and strength, but they are really not as powerful as they seem. their biggest strength is deception. holy water works on them pretty well. try focusing destructive energies and blasting that. you're not gonna get hollywood special effects, but if you can muster enough energy, it'll work.

just remember that if they laugh, it hurts and if they express pain, it REALLY hurts. it will become the worst right before it's over. and when you think it's over, don't assume it is. keep up the attack until you feel nothing left.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 12, 2010, 12:31:59 pm
Carden has a point. I wouldn't go as far as saying humans create demons but we do tend to control specific emotions that develop into a certain energy form or I like to call an energy imprint. Basically if a strong enough emotion is transmitted it can stick to certain people, places, objects etc... I also believe that if someone (or a group of people) were strong enough they could potentially 'charge' the energies in a specific manner. Therefore the energy takes a form and basically 'haunts' or 'sticks' to something. Some people think it may even go as far as people can manipulate it. I highly doubt people are that far in enlightening control to be able to do so because they would have realized they created it in the first place.

But anywho, this thing might just been that and would explain why it was hurting these particular people. The only way to get rid of it would to create I guess anti-thought of it? But that is just too far into the metaphysical realm. Also it would have to be 'thought-out of existence' by those who created it. Otherwise it would have to run its corse until it basically 'ran out of energy' because it is feeding off of transmitted energy from whoever created it.

But that is just a theory....
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 12, 2010, 12:43:24 pm
i was referring to Tulpas.
they are beings of energy that have obtained sentience and are human made.
upon learning about that, my logic said. if humans can do it, why not angels and demons?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 12, 2010, 05:17:51 pm
First of all - what's he supposed to attack? He has stated that it's whereabouts are unknown.

Quote
... try focusing destructive energies and blasting that...

Not the advice I would give! Badly focused and randomly sent energies can result in unforeseen and unwanted effects! Backlashes are not unheard of!!!!
If you want to get yourself killed, Carden, go ahead - but DON'T advice others to act as irresponsible and foolish as you seem to do.

my mistake, my mistake. i was a bit too ambiguous with that statement. you are absolutely right! just sending random bursts of energy into the world is not a good idea.
i meant that this should be done when you are facing off against it.
it's just that most of what i do is instinctual to me and i don't always think about how what i say can be misunderstood. i will be more careful with my wording in the future.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 12, 2010, 07:05:47 pm
Tulpas? So it is a construct after all? *Rejoices at being right*

Anyway, about the whole 'blasting it with energy business'. My only advice would be if you're new to it, don't use it before you're 100% sure you can control it. I like to take a more subtle approach with constructs, though. Kind of like reverse-programming it into regular energy again or into a modified version, but I'm pretty sure you'd have to be extremely good in that domain if you were to try it on a tulpa, since they're sentient and all.

(Plus, if you're good enough to destroy a tulpa like that, the safest way to take it down instead would be to create one yourself to do the job, in my opinion...)
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 12, 2010, 07:47:49 pm
(Plus, if you're good enough to destroy a tulpa like that, the safest way to take it down instead would be to create one yourself to do the job, in my opinion...)

which is my favorite way to do things.

however, that opens doors to other possible mishaps if not done correctly.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 13, 2010, 01:38:43 am
I have a new problem I got this email a few days ago.

someone;s being trying to kill me for many months now with black magic,
> he's a profesional. its at its most intense now, very difficult to access
> the physical body now,i'm mostly astral, and haven't had my life force
> energy for several days now
> if you can help in any way it would be appreciated. unfortunatly he hears
> everything i write, and blocks other people's access to me.


or maybe its the same problem
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: oldbill4823 on February 13, 2010, 06:45:09 am
Why is this your problem?


If YOU have a problem by all means ask for help here.

Otherwise using Mayday section to write about heresay events concerning unspecified others seems like immature attention seeking.

Also is English your first language?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 13, 2010, 09:36:16 am
The people I am talking about are friends and members of a magical order of which I am chief which makes it MY problem. You have no idea how helpless I feel right now and you want to know if English is my first language this does not help me at all.
NOX
Zsniel
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: oldbill4823 on February 13, 2010, 10:21:25 am
Well i think you should resign as chief then. That would be the end of your problems, yes?

However I get the impression you are attatched to drama of this story rather than reality. It reminds me once of when as a teenager i invented a whole story about satanists attacking me just to raise my confused self esteem in the eyes of others. I even remember cutting myself with a razor to make the episode believable and more theatrical. I think i was confused about many things for many years. This is one of the things that qualifies me to help you here. I have ALL the t-shirts.

Also I ask about your first langauge because it helps me see you better. I want to know if you are including your friends spelling mistakes out of investigative integrity or wether they are your own. If English is a second language for you then this gives another explanation. Any of these things lets me home in on the real problems you are presenting. Which i already guess are very different from the ones you are telling us to look at.

You are asking for help and yet get in a tizzy fit when have no idea why i ask you questions.
How old are you? 

But maybe you know better and wont need to answer any of my questions. If thats the case then you are not really asking for help, are you? Only attention.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 13, 2010, 11:24:49 am
if you're the chief of this order, then you should already know how to protect yourself and others from these sorts of things. where i live, that's like a 101 class. if you're gonna deal with that realm, you gotta know how to protect yourself from it first.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 13, 2010, 12:37:05 pm
I'm sorry Old Bill I'm just frustrated attention is the last thing I wont this would look very bad for me. English is my first language but I'm dyslexic resigning from the order is not a option. I'm 39years old I do know how to deal with these things but can't seem to get a hold of it I'm hoping fresh eyes will be able to see what is going on better may be Im the one that is to tursting of what people tell me and I can't get a hold of it because its not there I don't know.
Zsniel
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 13, 2010, 01:35:14 pm
THIS IS ONLY IF YOU REEEEEEALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING:

it remains elusive because it secretly fears you. what you have to do is give it what it wants. convince yourself that it's driving you crazy. make yourself appear to be the weakest member. lure it to you. as soon as you get it near you, bind it in whatever way you personally bind things.

then just have your way with it. make it regret ever even considering messing with humans.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 13, 2010, 01:57:50 pm
If you are right about what it is Carden what I realy want is to get a hold of the magician that created it. And it is driving me crazy.
Zsniel
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: oldbill4823 on February 13, 2010, 02:24:31 pm
Maybe its just me but this reads like adolescent fantasy fiction.

Carden i think your ideas about binding demons are based on roleplay and modern fiction, maybe some auto suggestion and a liberal sprinkling of delusion too.
But what the heck, its your life, you are the author of your interpretations.

Zsniel i am actually embarressed to read the things you write.
I actually feel shame reading this thread, but by all means carry on with this conversation between you both.
It beats watching aunt Cindies home made pornos, in a guilty sort of way.
If any one needs help holding the tissues at the end of this particular Mayday fantasy, dont call me.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 13, 2010, 04:28:54 pm
Maybe its just me but this reads like adolescent fantasy fiction.

Carden i think your ideas about binding demons are based on roleplay and modern fiction, maybe some auto suggestion and a liberal sprinkling of delusion too.
But what the heck, its your life, you are the author of your interpretations.

excuse you?

i have learned what i have learned about demons from fighting them. i have learned through external as well as internal injury and i got the scars to prove it. i have been torn to pieces psychologically and emotionally by them.
but guess what? i've never lost. this is my drive, my fuel. there is no thrill on earth that can satisfy me more than cornering them and doing to them what they've done to so many others.
i have bound them, expelled them, even destroyed them.
how dare you say my methods are fiction and delusion. i do what it takes to get the job done. i go down paths that others fear to tread. my methods are unorthodox, i'll give you that. but if that's what it takes to get the job done, then that's what i'll do. i have not criticized your methods or beliefs. only shared my own opinions on a subject that is a huge part of my life.

do i believe what he's saying? not entirely. but i'll be damned if my doubt leads to someone being harmed. so i'm going to give him what advice i can. if he's faking, oh well. if it turns out he is telling the truth, no one can say i did nothing.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 14, 2010, 12:03:24 pm
I am sorry but this just doesn't sound right to me. Some of the ideas your putting out there Carden just don't fit with demonic entities, but some things do fit. I just don't think your approach is good for the main issue at this moment.

Anywho Zsniel it would be best if we had more information about you and your background as well as some information about your 'order' and what you guys practice. We really can't give good advice if we do not know what is going on within the group. Otherwise I am just going to think this is a load of crap. No offence but we get some crazies on here from time to time so more information would be both beneficial to you and your group.

 I think it is appropriate for the mayday mayday section because it invovles the lives and well being of others. Please give more information so we can give our full advice and not lead you in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 14, 2010, 12:25:12 pm
i know exactly what the issue is now.

he invited me to join his group. they're a dark arts group. BINGO.
that's like trying to put out a fire with a flamethrower.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 14, 2010, 03:49:02 pm
If the flame thrower is empty. you could technically beat a fire to death with it. :-D

Anybody here know if we can jerry rig a flame thrower to fire something it should not be firing like CO2 or liquid N?

A sufficiently advanced/unorthodox flame thrower maybeable to fire liquid nitrogen as well as napalm. ever play bio shock? :-fly)
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 14, 2010, 05:49:29 pm
well then it wouldn't really be a FLAMEthrower, then, would it?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 14, 2010, 06:38:15 pm
i know exactly what the issue is now.

he invited me to join his group. they're a dark arts group. BINGO.
that's like trying to put out a fire with a flamethrower.

Yeah, and did you check the "files" section of the group? (He invited me too...) There's this one article that mentions the Necronomicon and how the remaining copies are being suppressed by organized religion and how the names of the Old Ones in it resemble the names in the Book of Enoch... Also something about Satanists using the Call to Cthulhu as a ritual... Sorry, but any group that considers the Necronomicon as a source of knowledge can't be taken seriously. Especially when the rituals are based on translations of a fictional book and of its fictional language. (They also call themselves "Vampiric Knights" who preserve the balance between light and darkness. :roll:)

PS I still want to see a flamethrower-that-fires-napalm in action, though.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 14, 2010, 09:40:19 pm
well then it wouldn't really be a FLAMEthrower, then, would it?

Fine, variable pressurized liquid dispenser then. It'll still burn your face off. kinda like how a magnifying glass focuses sunlight. I guess what i'm saying is.

Flame thrower still sounds better. and spraying fire is still its primary function despite its other uses. You don't go calling around spoons, potato peelers when you use em to peel potatoes do ya?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 14, 2010, 10:13:26 pm
The Files are contributed by all our members they are free to do what ever they like we have 11 Temples world wide and they all do diffrent things.
The fictional Demons of Lovecraft have been used by Chaose magicians for a few year now and they have become powerfull Thralls independent of there creators.
The Point is I'm telling the truth. how many people that really need help have been insulted and turned away by people like Bill that did not even take the time to google my name how hard is that? Anyway my problem has been fixed seems flame throwers do work.  <^>
Zsniel
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 14, 2010, 10:38:50 pm
Perhaps the lovecraftian  created such fear in people that they became an unintentional egregore.


Sweet.  That means we can do everything from sicking FF7's cloud against them to mauling them with tellitubbies. Pop fiction vs pop fiction.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 14, 2010, 11:04:36 pm
Well the Christians did it  :evil:
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 15, 2010, 09:39:09 am
Well the Christians did it  :evil:

way to be a hypocrite.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 15, 2010, 09:41:49 am
Of course the Christians did it.  The muslims are too messy, the jews overcharge, and the Buddhists would have left a saffron robe.


Don't get me started on the hindus. Or the Pastafarians.


SCIENTOLOGY!!!!
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 15, 2010, 01:00:59 pm
Well keeping documents about Lovecraft in your order's files takes away most if not all of your credibility. Yeah, some chaos magicians use it, but others use the Jedi Force. And yeah, Christianity did steal most of their stuff from other religions. But that's not really the point, since Christianity didn't base their stuff on works that were never claimed to be true. As much as I hate that they did it, I have to give it to them, they based it on deities that already existed in myth and folklore. The Necronomicon, on the other hand, is fictitious through and through.

And Zsniel, when people ask for help here, they get help if their problem is real. If it's not, it's a lot more helpful to set them back on the right track rather than to help them get rid of an imaginary demon.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 15, 2010, 05:50:34 pm
Kube you are discounting the possibility that gods and demons are nothing more than creatures born off our imaginations/emotions/thoughts/dreams.

Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 15, 2010, 08:08:15 pm
 gods and demons are nothing more than creatures born off our imaginations/emotions/thoughts/dreams.

When I said the Christians did it I meant that they created the Devil through there faithfull Belief and fear they litrally willed him into existence. The more people that believe in an entity the more power it has how many Christians are there in the world?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 15, 2010, 08:21:11 pm
No. the Hindus and the Zoroastrians were there first. And there were those before them... and so forth.

And a lot of christians are only christian in name.  a lot don't even believe in the devil.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 15, 2010, 08:49:34 pm
Raz you are my hero! lol

Anywho I think that now this has gotten a little out of place because if this is a make believe mumbo jumbo group I am going to be very upset.

So Zsniel if gods and demons are just born off our imagination then we should be able to reverse them out of existence right? Easier said than done huh?

Truthfully I don't think we can really create things from our imagination but we do create physical representations of abstract thoughts and forces that we have no relative comprehension of.

And actually the Devil was around a lot longer and predates Christianity by 300 years minimum.

The thing you are confusing is that an abstract concept develops and evolves over time with the progression and transformation of human knowledge vs. the idea that everything is created and 'new ideas' are made. In actuality new ideas are not new we have thought everything we can just being able to apply them and inforce them into a mainstream system of acceptance is the issue. Being accepted into a mainstream system would inquire the ability to understand the concept somewhat similar to the idea proclaimed (even though no one can conceptualize something in the exact same manner to someone else). So how can something be created if it was already there? It was there just transformed.

You should look up Kabbalistic Judaism and their ideas. I think it is quite interesting concept. But anywho I already know you wont agree. Humans either go one of the other extreme. 1. humans believe that we influence and create everything even in a short amount of time 2. humans believe that we have no control or influence in what is created and extends over a longer period of time. The problem being 'time' and 'physical understanding'. Get rid of those and you can do anything.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 15, 2010, 08:52:16 pm
Well keeping documents about Lovecraft in your order's files takes away most if not all of your credibility.

I would much rather have people in the order that will dig through the rubbish to find the jems than those that don't.

 Yeah, some chaos magicians use it, but others use the Jedi Force.
 
All Magicians use the force it has many names.



And yeah, Christianity did steal most of their stuff from other religions. But that's not really the point, since Christianity didn't base their stuff on works that were never claimed to be true. As much as I hate that they did it, I have to give it to them, they based it on deities that already existed in myth and folklore. The Necronomicon, on the other hand, is fictitious through and through.

And Zsniel, when people ask for help here, they get help if their problem is real. If it's not, it's a lot more helpful to set them back on the right track rather than to help them get rid of an imaginary demon.

I agree with you but there is no need to be harsh like bill was everyone else was very helpfull and I took that advise and used it.
Z




Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 15, 2010, 09:39:23 pm
So Zsniel if gods and demons are just born off our imagination then we should be able to reverse them out of existence right? Easier said than done huh?

The Devil was a bad example for me to use. let say for example a clan diety from ancent europe we have no way of knowing what that dietys name was or how it was worshiped so inesance that diety has seast to exist. The Gods that we do know such Wotan, Thor, Frigg, Fraya, Tyr,Sif etc. That remeberd and continue to be worshiped do still exist and many of these god are the personification of nature or aspects of life.

I do studie the Kabbalah from time to time my to co chiefs use it to explane almost everything. But I'm like There are forthy nine gates of compassion which connect with the mystery of the perfict man composed of male and female and with the mystery of faith. These are the Gates of understanding referable to BINAH  :)zzz

I need Beer all Hail Ninkasi goddess of Beer 
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 15, 2010, 10:22:33 pm
Kube you are discounting the possibility that gods and demons are nothing more than creatures born off our imaginations/emotions/thoughts/dreams.



Actually I believe exactly that. It's just you have to admit, we can never know for sure if the tales have truth in them or not, which feeds us the ability to work with them. Cthulhu and the other Old Ones, by contrast, find their roots in a work of fiction written purely for entertainment. Faith, as misguided as it may be, holds great power, but holding acknowledged fiction as truth is just misguided in and of itself, is it not? (Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been years since I've felt anything like faith so my vision of it might be warped by now :P)
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 16, 2010, 05:44:48 am
Ah, but you see? Video games and virtual reality. The emotions and the reactions we make are real.

It is us that give power to such things, be their origins fiction or truth. They were literally born off our fear. and thus they feed off it.

Books, stories. All tools of the i(magi)nation.

 
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 16, 2010, 09:30:42 am
Hey you're right... It really does seem like the source, fiction or not, is viable as long as it's viewed with emotion... I just remembered something:

It was part of a list of truths society was not ready to admit. The first one was that faith = delusion in that the activity in the subject's brain when they prayed or talked about their religious beliefs (or any other sign of faith) was exactly the same as when they read a story or imagined something. The part of our brain that interprets religious beliefs is the same that deals with imagination and it interacts the same with both.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 16, 2010, 10:02:15 am
hmmm... thoughts are things, but not all things are thoughts.

i don't believe that the existence of the universe is based on belief. that would mean that the very fabric of reality is but a facade that stands to hide absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 16, 2010, 12:09:28 pm
Must there really be something behind the curtain?

Most people think that there must be something or else their lives would be pointless. Their solution is simple, they choose to believe in something greater than themselves.

There's this thing called personal realities. It says that we control reality, but our reality is still influenced by the one of others since they too have a personal reality. (To put it extremely simply, of course)

There's this thing I read (not sure if it's right or wrong) The article said that those things "outside" of reality that nobody witnesses in this reality do exist, only they exist solely for those who include it in their reality. Basically, my reality may be a simple illusion, a product of my imagination yet so deeply engraved in my subconscious that it is almost impossible to bend, while in yours, there may be something behind the curtain.

It's an interesting theory to say the least and I'm fairly sure I don't fully understand it, but this is what I could understand when I read about it.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 16, 2010, 12:35:38 pm
Christianity didn't really steal the ideas they were originally a Jewish sect. But that is another conversation all together. I see where your belief system is coming from. You have the world view that humans are the ultimate force of abstract thought and change. That is why this conversation is getting sticky.

I mentioned the Kabbalistic view because they believe that your actions great or small can impact the connection with the spiritual world. Kind of a neoplatonic world view.

Were you looking at the Jewish Kabbalah or the new movement crap that Madonna is in? In the Kabbalah tradition or even just the basic Platonic view evil is always present and not created by human mind. The only thing we can do is achieve a stage higher than that. Or release from our physical bodies.

I truthfully believe demons and spirits are just forces of energy. I don't believe that we have control of them or can produce them. But we can manipulate them which is unwise because human knowledge of that aspect of existence is more than we can comphrend let alone someone actually having all knowing insight of it. I believe we can shape them yes but create them no. We shape our selves and what is around us but we don't create it because the material is already there.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 16, 2010, 12:41:02 pm
i'm with her^

the proof that i have that it's not just a construct of the mind is that hallucinations are solely the product of information that the mind has. in order to hallucinate it, you must have either experienced it in some way or just thought it up. you cannot hallucinate what you do not know.

this is the difference between crazy and possessed. a possessed person mentions things and acts on things that they should not know.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 16, 2010, 03:37:02 pm
Crazy people talk about and act on things that they shouldn't know/believe.


Your point?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 16, 2010, 05:46:38 pm
Crazy people talk about and act on things that they shouldn't know/believe.


Your point?

things that they could not possibly have any knowledge of?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 16, 2010, 08:12:14 pm


I mentioned the Kabbalistic view because they believe that your actions great or small can impact the connection with the spiritual world. Kind of a neoplatonic world view.

Were you looking at the Jewish Kabbalah or the new movement crap that Madonna is in? In the Kabbalah tradition or even just the basic Platonic view evil is always present and not created by human mind. The only thing we can do is achieve a stage higher than that. Or release from our physical bodies.

This is a list of the books I have.

The Sword and The Serpent The two fold Qabalistic Univers By Denning + Phillips
The Foundations of High Magick Volume 1 By Denning + Phillips
A Garden of Pomegranates Israel Regardie
The Middle Pillar Israel Regardie
The Holy Kabbalah A Study of the Secret Tradition in Israel by A. E. Waite









Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 16, 2010, 08:25:31 pm
Actually I believe exactly that. It's just you have to admit, we can never know for sure if the tales have truth in them or not, which feeds us the ability to work with them. Cthulhu and the other Old Ones, by contrast, find their roots in a work of fiction written purely for entertainment. Faith, as misguided as it may be, holds great power, but holding acknowledged fiction as truth is just misguided in and of itself, is it not? (Correct me if I'm wrong, it's been years since I've felt anything like faith so my vision of it might be warped by now

I have not worked with the Lovecraft demons myself but I've never herd of anyone that do work with them or have tyred using them  say that they don't work or that they have been unsuccessful
z
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 16, 2010, 11:39:46 pm
you have faith that you will wake up in the morning and that the sun will rise and the earth will not go crashing into it, don't you?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 17, 2010, 02:07:03 am
I would like to continue this coversation in Demons Demonology and the Devil
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 17, 2010, 04:06:17 pm
all of those books are more modern 'pick and choose' beliefs. What I mean is that it is a new religious movement compaired to the Kabbalists that I am refering to. I am talking about methodology that predates Crowley and the Golden Dawn. I do have to admit some of their stuff is appealing but it's a different worldview when it comes to demons.  :focus:

So what I think is the next step is to ask: what methods and processes would you use in trying to get rid of this 'demon'? In order to fully assist you how does your order deal with demons and spiritual entities and how are they 'envoked' in your tradition? Meaning, if you 'envoke' them why do you do it and for what benefitial purpose? Also it would help to know if any of your members temper with other dark arts on an individual basis or at least without you (since it seems that it is not hurting you). This is what I mean by background information. You don't have to tell me the rituals just the overall fundamentals and purposes.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: GDman on February 17, 2010, 04:29:11 pm
hey i would like to know about a gray demon that wears a large black hooded cloak named seth. respond plz!
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 17, 2010, 06:36:39 pm
hey i would like to know about a gray demon that wears a large black hooded cloak named seth. respond plz!

um...

e-mail sent
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 18, 2010, 01:04:52 am
all of those books are more modern 'pick and choose' beliefs. What I mean is that it is a new religious movement compaired to the Kabbalists that I am refering to. I am talking about methodology that predates Crowley and the Golden Dawn. I do have to admit some of their stuff is appealing but it's a different worldview when it comes to demons.  :focus:

So what I think is the next step is to ask: what methods and processes would you use in trying to get rid of this 'demon'? In order to fully assist you how does your order deal with demons and spiritual entities and how are they 'envoked' in your tradition? Meaning, if you 'envoke' them why do you do it and for what benefitial purpose? Also it would help to know if any of your members temper with other dark arts on an individual basis or at least without you (since it seems that it is not hurting you). This is what I mean by background information. You don't have to tell me the rituals just the overall fundamentals and purposes.

I only read the Golden Dawn stuff thats usually enough to put me to sleep. Most of the orders files are Thelema but everyone dose there own thing I think the people that have had problems have brought them with them.
z
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 18, 2010, 09:49:51 am
which is why they would need to go through a cleansing ceremony prior to joining any group.
it's irresponsible to allow anyone in without first making sure they're not a danger to other members.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 18, 2010, 10:27:18 am
Its mostly intenet based so it probable a wast of time asking them to do a cleansing ceremony as we wouldent know if they actually did it or not plus there are a few hanger on's
z
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 18, 2010, 11:34:12 am
an internet group???
really???

i'm done here.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 18, 2010, 02:49:25 pm
Its mostly intenet based so it probable a wast of time asking them to do a cleansing ceremony as we wouldent know if they actually did it or not plus there are a few hanger on's
z

Yahoo groups laugh at your face. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Zsniel on February 18, 2010, 11:08:04 pm
mostly did you think I had my own aeroplane? There are groups of people that work together in 5 Countries we don't have Temples in every country in the world yet.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: rave phillaphia on February 20, 2010, 03:14:04 pm
actually I have heard about these kind of groups. It is a new movement within the pagan community. It is really common actually. I had to do a report about them in my new religious movement and the new age class. Have you tried witchforum.net for cleansing questions?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 21, 2010, 01:38:04 am
that's strange because every practitioner of magick that i know says groups should be in person or not at all.
they view a coven like a family. doing things via internet can have so many unforeseen variables. not to mention that the strength of a group increases exponentially when united.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 21, 2010, 05:15:52 am
When has magic or family ever cared about distance?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 21, 2010, 06:43:51 pm
that's strange because every practitioner of magick that i know says groups should be in person or not at all.
they view a coven like a family. doing things via internet can have so many unforeseen variables. not to mention that the strength of a group increases exponentially when united.

You CAN unite mentally - even if you're not physically present.

but there's more to it. there's another element that comes into play when you are physically together.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 21, 2010, 08:33:50 pm
that's strange because every practitioner of magick that i know says groups should be in person or not at all.
they view a coven like a family. doing things via internet can have so many unforeseen variables. not to mention that the strength of a group increases exponentially when united.

You CAN unite mentally - even if you're not physically present.

but there's more to it. there's another element that comes into play when you are physically together.


I know! Your power becomes fourfold if you join hands, and so on.... but.... unite mentally is still better than working alone, or...??

i guess... but i've just been told that doing things via internet is a no-no. things can get skewed along the way.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 21, 2010, 08:50:09 pm
Many chaos mages use the internet to spread sigils disguised as icons and pics...... Who knows what using the same medium could do to your spells.......... that sounded like it belonged in a video game for some reason.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 22, 2010, 12:24:31 am
I don't know about sigils and chaos magic, but there are a few chatrooms scattered around that do psychic remote viewing, telepathy, telekinesis, whatever, over the net. Not those BS readings you find in ads, mind you. From what more experienced folks have told me (as in many years more in experience) distance shouldn't change anything, since you're dealing with the metaphysical. Should be the same for mentally uniting, no?
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Raziel on February 22, 2010, 02:14:57 am
Yes, distance shouldn't mean anything but someone was suggesting about using the internet to link or something.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 22, 2010, 12:07:52 pm
Many chaos mages use the internet to spread sigils disguised as icons and pics...... Who knows what using the same medium could do to your spells.......... that sounded like it belonged in a video game for some reason.

wait wait. what does spreading a sigil do?

i have a basic knowledge of sigils, but i'm not sure exactly what they do.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 22, 2010, 02:28:37 pm
Yes, distance shouldn't mean anything but someone was suggesting about using the internet to link or something.

Oh ok. Well if you based the link solely on the internet connection, I agree it could be very unstable, depending on both parties, etc. (speculating here, conscious minds aren't part of the traffic I allow to enter my network :P)
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Carden on February 22, 2010, 07:21:39 pm
Yes, distance shouldn't mean anything but someone was suggesting about using the internet to link or something.

Oh ok. Well if you based the link solely on the internet connection, I agree it could be very unstable, depending on both parties, etc. (speculating here, conscious minds aren't part of the traffic I allow to enter my network :P)

when i was first discovering the metaphysical side of life, i tried to send some happy, positive, healing energies through the internet connection to my girlfriend at the time. what i got was a splitting headache and a feeling of static in my head. since then, i haven't wanted to mess with it.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: KubeSix on February 22, 2010, 09:12:52 pm
My guess would be the headache occurred not because of the fact that you tried using the internet as the empathic link, but mostly because your subconscious didn't understand its task. That sounds vague... I'll elaborate.

You tried sending emotions via a link composed of electromagnetic waves. That, if you simply used the waves as a path to follow, to visualize your target, could have worked. It all got screwed up when you tried integrating the emotions into that link. In other words, rather than visualizing the emotions as using the connection to travel, it would've been safer to just make them follow it, you know what I mean? What I think might have happened is your subconscious tried to make the emotions directly use the connection and that would require it to convert and send the emotions in the form of electromagnetic signals. It's like sending a binary signal to the human brain, it won't know what to do with it and either A) reject it completely or B) freak out AKA hurt.

I think.
Title: Re: question about a Demon
Post by: Levinthross on February 28, 2010, 05:14:35 am
online magic is hard and forget psychism its based on electromagnetics using a electronic terminal would be eaxtraordinarily difficult at best.
the only way successful online magic outside of chaos magic could be performed is most likely through a chat setting. chaos magic works well or just a tadbit better than
most magic online because theres a sort of respect so to speak all gods of chaos are also gods of travel and psychopomps which inludes eshu ellegua mercury and so on
these gods are also in charge of communication thus chaos magic already works in a way condusive to using the internet because of the online junk and clutter
which would inhibit alot of normal spells even if you did achive digitization.

but internet spells are not impossible i advise recordings of chantings you have done and saved basic text documents that you have typed up with the chanted phrase
over and over and over again with out the cut copy paste function.