Author Topic: Can You Really Survive It All.....  (Read 4407 times)

Wasabi_Richie

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Can You Really Survive It All.....
« on: January 22, 2010, 01:31:06 pm »
 :-o  Many of ways the world could end. many have stipulated that one day it will be the war against machines. You all might think this far fetched but is it really? The military makes machines that are unmanned every day from tanks to airplanes. You have motion activated devices, censors in are cars, cell phones and satellite communications. Think about it would it really be hard to make a device that is programmed to be affected by motion, censors and satellite communications? If that can be done then what stops a machine from thinking on its own Or maybe it doesn't act on it's own maybe it is just following it's program. Think their is even machines to make other machines. If it does happen how do you stop something that isn't alive and doesn't get tired or wear out easy? How do you stop something that can be bullet proof, self repairing, and can learn from interactions? How do you stop something that can move faster and think quicker than you ever could? How do you survive.....



 
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matthew321

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 05:16:46 pm »
You can instill a paradox into their mind set if they think (I think this could also work with religion). This can ruin them and we shall strike. We can just wait for them to run out of materials. We could try to fight back and win. If we give up I think they might let us live but in jail. (I am trying to list all the possibilities here)

Or the last which is my favorite every human must die so that there is no chance humans will create something that will destroy humanity. That way humanity is safe from itself. (Yes I know they are all dead but at least there will not be something that destroys humanity... and that is what is important here)
If my life is worthless then death must be my currency to spend.

Muerte

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 09:36:36 pm »
  My answer to Evil Machines is simple.  A transportable EMP Device.  One pulse, no more worries.  (Oh, and yes, they are in developement)
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KubeSix

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2010, 01:34:26 am »
  My answer to Evil Machines is simple.  A transportable EMP Device.  One pulse, no more worries.  (Oh, and yes, they are in developement)

In fact, some already exist. Not used much, but they exist. (Not transportable, though, as far as I know...) Terminator had better run :P But I had seen a test on discovery channel of an EMP a few years ago on that weapons show...

There's one thing, though: singularity.

It's a theory that goes along those lines: humans, in the coming decades, will find ways to improve their lives such as cybernetic advancements, etc. People will slowly being integrating machines, at first nanobots into their bloodstreams, into their lives and slowly become machines themselves. Those things are called body 2.0 if I remember correctly. It's basically a body made only of synthetic materials. Skin that is not affected by UV rays, neurons with the processing power of many organic brains, power limbs (those already exist. They're prosthetic limbs you connect to the persons' brain. It allows them to move them by thought, like a normal limb and they're planning on having artificial, temperature and pressure-sensitive, skin created for them.), etc.

Next there's body 3.0. That's a non-corporeal human. Basically a human whose consciousness has been transferred to a cloud of nanobots. A conscious machine, the descendant of humanity. So humans, at first only the rich, but more would follow, would slowly become the machines so many fear today. The only ones to fight them would be the Luddites or "anti-technology people". Or so the singularity theory declares. The theory also says the Luddites will fail in preserving humanity, but that's coming from people who actually hope singularity will occur...

Should the Luddites fail, singularity will take place. Humans, having become machines, will start thinking like machines and become one. Since by then computers can no longer get smaller and to become more powerful, must get bigger, they will start rearranging matter to create gigantic computers, drift off into space with the newly rearranged Earth and integrated other planets into the conscious supercomputer.

When they thought of that theory, those people did not consider EMPs, obviously. If people are machines, EMPs become the easiest way to kill off an entire army, conscious as they are, with a single button.

But all that to say: the machines that would decide to destroy humanity would be human themselves. If humanity becomes machines, only a fraction of it is left to defend its remnants. That's a huge disadvantage...
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

Raziel
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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2010, 05:33:50 am »
Dude, EMP is only viable as long as we use computers that are exclusively electricity users, bio or mechanical computers, and eventually quantum computers wouldn't be nessesarilly vulnerable to such a weapon.

Hence, we could get quantum brains and live like gods by manipulating reality via tugging on metaphysical "strings".

Time would cease to matter, as we will be able to bypass it because of extra dimensional manipulation.


Nanobots are boring, gimme god mode!
The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow becomes.
But donít be afraid. And donít forget...
You hold the mightiest weapon of all.
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onishadowolf

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2010, 06:51:37 am »
Damn it Raz, you beat me to it.
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Raziel
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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2010, 07:29:04 am »
I was at first going to say that even today, we have emp shielding. But it sounded boring and i felt like needed to piss you off for some reason. I hope you understand :embarassed:
The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow becomes.
But donít be afraid. And donít forget...
You hold the mightiest weapon of all.
-Kingdom Hearts

Angelus

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2010, 07:50:22 am »
OK. Here's the plan. We send a bloke back in time to make sure we have a savior who is fore warned and fore armed. The machines will learn of this and send one of there own back. Our man will have to fight and kill it. This will lead to the machines realising they have to kill this savior as he is a threat to them. So they will manipulate the unexplained time machine and send another, more advanced model of machine. Lets just call it a T-1000. Then we will capture and reprogram one of the machines. Lets just call it a T-800 model 101 for the sake of argument. This will change our history and the time stream will be rewritten. In our new universe the first day of the war, lets call it Judgement Day, will have been pushed back about 7 years. We will never have sent anything back in time due to the previous time travelers being from the alternate timeline (pay attention, it gets complicated here) but still carry full knowledge of that timeline as the aforementioned savior carries full knowledge from his childhood experience (so do the machine for some reason). Now lets say our savior and leader dies. The machines will decide to send another new machine (lets call it the T(jumping the shark)-X) back to kill all his lieutenants (even though this plan never worked out for them the first 2 times, well not them, there alternate timeline them, which they have full unexplained knowledge of anyway so it might as well have been them.) and the savior was killed in the present timeline anyway leading to a massive waste in resources for both sides. Now we take the machine that killed our leader. Lets call it a T-850 model 101. Very similar to the last one we sent back and looks suspiciously like that fat Austrian guy who governed California before the war. That must be the upgrade package Microsoft released for the T-800 to T-850 conversion kit. We reprogram it and send it back. Laughing and knowing full well we win cause the people we sent it back to protect are standing next to us declaring "Seriously, I wasn't savagely murdered 20 years ago." before this reality collapses and a new one is built that is exactly the same only some people died along time ago that weren't dead before, "judgement day" happened later but for some reason the T-800s get built sooner, our savior is alive again but we know its gonna be ok cause thanks to our time meddling we found a good future where lighting guys are dead to him and he is Batman.

And that my friends is how we will beat the machines. Its long and hard but we get Batman. Or we just run them on Vista. That should do it.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Alexander Pope.

KubeSix

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 12:06:59 pm »
Dude, EMP is only viable as long as we use computers that are exclusively electricity users, bio or mechanical computers, and eventually quantum computers wouldn't be nessesarilly vulnerable to such a weapon.

Hence, we could get quantum brains and live like gods by manipulating reality via tugging on metaphysical "strings".

Time would cease to matter, as we will be able to bypass it because of extra dimensional manipulation.


Nanobots are boring, gimme god mode!

Billions of gods living together. Sounds horrible :P I'd leave to my own little reality and never come back hahah
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

matthew321

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 04:33:03 pm »
So what if we just make all programmers and robot specialists join a cult? (It can be like a union but with "special" retirement benefits) Therefore the threat of machine dominance will be avoided... Humanity will be safe from that kind of apocalypse for a little while.
If my life is worthless then death must be my currency to spend.

Polaris

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 07:47:38 pm »
I guess if you can't beat them, join them. Actually, the idea of a non-corporeal human existing as a cloud of nanobots is very similar to the ideas expressed in the RPG; 'Eclipse Phase'.

http://www.eclipsephase.com/game

Human consciousness is transferred from body to body, some possible bodies include animals, nanobot clouds, informorphs (basically a program living inside the 'internet'), pod humans (testube babies), robots and bodies with cybernetic advancements. If you die, you just get transferred to another body. You can reprogram your mind as well, if you don't want to cry so easily, get emotional surgery.

There's a lot more to it, but in general it's still a very interesting story line, God knows some of the ideas could come true in time.
She says that all energy is only borrowed; at some point you have to return it.

KubeSix

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 08:00:59 pm »
It's also a concept used in the manga series "Blame!" by Tsutomu Nihei.

If anyone wants to read a story about a post-apocalyptic where humans are scattered across a world ruled by machines and where the gods humans created with technology went out of control, you should read them. (Of course, you have to enjoy reading comics... There are 10 volumes in total.) Stuff like body transfers, nanotechnology and mind uploading. Also virtual realities, reality hacking and all that fun stuff people are probably gonna be using by the end of this millennium. (I'd say in the next 3 centuries, actually... They had better find a way to halt the aging process because I don't want to miss out on the whole quantum mind era.)
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

Raziel
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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2010, 08:43:46 pm »
Dude, EMP is only viable as long as we use computers that are exclusively electricity users, bio or mechanical computers, and eventually quantum computers wouldn't be nessesarilly vulnerable to such a weapon.

Hence, we could get quantum brains and live like gods by manipulating reality via tugging on metaphysical "strings".

Time would cease to matter, as we will be able to bypass it because of extra dimensional manipulation.


Nanobots are boring, gimme god mode!

Billions of gods living together. Sounds horrible :P I'd leave to my own little reality and never come back hahah

What makes you think it hasn't happened already, what makes you think they haven't made space craft and started life on other planets? what makes you think that the line between man an machine is a line that does not need to exist?


Machines are often viewed as a more advantageous to our own biological bodies because of the simplicity, they have in learning and precision.

However, we when viewed as bio machines are far more advanced than robots. The more complex a machine is the greater the margin for error.  Billions of us exist yet  none of us are the same. Not on. Hence we are far more complex than any of our current robots.

Our memories extend past the much touted terrabyte hard drives, we have two lobes, for mechanical processing and  for creativity,  we have unexplained psychic powers. WE ARE GODS SHOULD WE SEEK OUT OUR DESTINY. Master swordsmen/ warriors see the world in slow motion in a fight preforming clean efficient kills and takedowns that seem effortless and choreographed. WE HAD MICHAEL JACKSON!

Machines have limits in creating new ideas, new concepts. they will be able to adapt to environmental changes, but they will not be able to  create new environments nor predict the changes needed to adapt to them, hence wasting time. And inside the ever changing warp/force/quantum/astral realm They won't be able to go farther without adapting human/biological algorithms.


They will be able to clone themselves but not create. We can create but we cannot copy.


Eventually to advance, we will need to take one each other's characteristics to explore infinity.

Oh and Kube? I'd sugest that you follow the Cambridge based Methuselah foundation and Aubrey de Grey for news for life extension treatment. Once we develop telomere treatments that make them capable of perfect cell replecation we should be effectively immortal.

The key should be somewhere in the telomerase that allows cancer cells to replicate without damage to thier own genetic code.




CANCER IS THE KEY TO IMMORTALITY!!!!




 




The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow becomes.
But donít be afraid. And donít forget...
You hold the mightiest weapon of all.
-Kingdom Hearts

KubeSix

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2010, 09:07:48 pm »
Yes, we are, or could be, gods. But no-one believes in those powers anymore. I can't say the majority of the world or even the paranormal community agrees with me when I say the psychic potential of humans is unlimited. Disbelief makes them powerless. And like my kung fu teacher says: "We could do so much more. We could do anything. But us humans have been trained since birth to think logically and logic tells us we're just that: human." He's never mentioned psychic powers, etc. I think that's because they've become somewhat a science. Dividing telepathy, telekinesis and all the others and trying to explain them through logic renders them useless in my opinion.

We are biomachines creating cybernetic machines. But who's to say cybernetic machines didn't create us biomachines? Maybe we're the robots recreating our creators, and eventually attempting to become their equals.
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

Polaris

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Re: Can You Really Survive It All.....
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2010, 10:14:59 pm »
You're right KubeSix, without doubt the power of the human mind is nearly limitless. Logic may partly be responsible however, there are ways to explain 'energy manipulation' etc logically. For instance, there's an experiment you can do with radio waves: Stand near a normal antenna and notice the static of a specific channel increase or decrease relative to your position or channel frequency. Your body can act as a conductor for the radio waves you want, absorbing the "bad" ones that interfere with the signal, or on some frequencies do the opposite. You're left with nothing but static while you absorb the signal you wanted to begin with. This also works by touching the antenna.

By that experiment it's fairly obvious that your body can mess with them. But to what extent? What about what they can do to your body? Who knows, I've not tested it, but I do know it's not microwave lethal (if it was we'd all be dead). Although I think, in theory, it could cause some slight problems for those whose brains aren't used to it. Unless the brain can fully shield itself from them, but then one must wonder about the limits of that shield.

It just doesn't seem likely to me, that being able to explain things that way necessarily renders them useless.

Not too mention, we can see by the state of the modern world, that blind faith, isn't always a good thing either.

All people need to see is that it's possible.

She says that all energy is only borrowed; at some point you have to return it.