[ViciouslyMe]

Hunter, has anyone ever told you not to poke the sleeping bear?

[Moloch]

Eh, if it stays true to its word... I won't bother going any further; but if this is just some stupid school kid ruse to try and garner sympathy and support from others here... well, we'll see who does the poking, and who does the destroying.

Ok Hunter write up your experience of 'working' enochian magic.
That seems the simplest solution to the whole debate. Experience is the ultimate answer to all of this.
So far it appears that no-one has actually experienced anything with enochian magic, only read about it and posted opinions.
I am completely prepared to look at ANY genuine experience from anyone.

[confused_mystery]

I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  . well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)

[Angelus]

I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  . well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)

Don't see why not. Alot of spells that modern Wiccans, Pagans etc, etc use are translations from other languages. Alot of early, judeo/christian spells have been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English.

[Muerte]

  I submit this. 

  Most pagan Spells/rituals are of human origin.  Enochian is from a totally different spices/entity.  It was translated to Human tounge for us to understand, but would that make it at all effective?  Perchance the ineffectiveness of this form of "spell-craft" is due to the incompatibility of one species to another.  Do you honestly think that we humans could speak the angelic/demonic language?  Anyone ever wonder why they would elect to speak mankind's tongue as appose to speaking to us in theirs?  I will leave you with this to ponder.

  Will is only a portion in spell-craft.  Another portion is understanding and when you translate words from one language to another then there is room for error/ineffectiveness.  That's just dealing with mankind's diverse languages, imagine what it would do when going from one species to another.

[Moloch]

I would like to add a disclaimer, as a practitioner of some of the blackest Arts, so to speak. Will is everything, and will is not manifested solely in the physical, but is actually more pronounced in the mental, or thought processes. Language is merely a form of expressing one's will, and being anchored in the physical, it is both prone to, and critically encumbered by, fallacies, misunderstanding, and the like.

Therefore, I submit that language is a non-problem if one can rise above the need for it.

[confused_mystery]

I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  . well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)

Don't see why not. Alot of spells that modern Wiccans, Pagans etc, etc use are translations from other languages. Alot of early, judeo/christian spells have been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English.

but then muerte brings a good point, so due to it being translated from one species' language to another then the translation would be very inaccurate.

  I submit this. 

  Most pagan Spells/rituals are of human origin.  Enochian is from a totally different spices/entity.  It was translated to Human tounge for us to understand, but would that make it at all effective?  Perchance the ineffectiveness of this form of "spell-craft" is due to the incompatibility of one species to another.  Do you honestly think that we humans could speak the angelic/demonic language?  Anyone ever wonder why they would elect to speak mankind's tongue as appose to speaking to us in theirs?  I will leave you with this to ponder.

  Will is only a portion in spell-craft.  Another portion is understanding and when you translate words from one language to another then there is room for error/ineffectiveness.  That's just dealing with mankind's diverse languages, imagine what it would do when going from one species to another.

Ok when u put it that way, i thought of one thing... CONTROL which would branch out to a lot of things (and i bet this is where billions of guesses could be made  ). With that kind of magic that's theirs and given to us, all those spells that the practitioners think they're benefiting from could actually be spells that would possess pieces of that person without them knowing or somehow hurting them. So basically what i'm trying to explain is that those who think they're benefiting from that are actually getting screwed over. No one truly knows exactly what the text means, only the angels and demons.

hot or cold Muerte ? 

[Muerte]

  @ C.M - Pretty close to hot.

  @ Moloch - You of course are more advanced than the run of the mill practitioner.  What I stated is mostly for those who are dabbling.  I would compare it to working on your own car with the Chilton one signs out from the local library.  Sure the information is there in front of you, but if you have no idea what it means how is it going to help you?

[Moloch]

Lol, which is why I don't ever give them more than enough to get them into trouble.

[jordyn]

good points, look at what a mess the bible is, that's all human...

however angels are able to speak in our language, there's countless stories, in and out of the bible with these messengers interacting with us on behalf of God, why would they tell one person to tell others to call on them, when an actual angel would be acting on behalf of Him?

but everything's Latin...silly romans.

[Angelus]

I never thought of this before but with angels, they may experience emotions or sensations that we are incapable of and so we have no word for making it impossible to translate.

[jordyn]

at this point i'm favoring; some people have it, some people don't...the more one needs to aid their skill, the less the skill is theirs leaving them to seek out angels, demons or any other creature not of the human world to do what as a human, they're not supposed to be doing. 

if you have the ability to feel them, you make a good point angelus...one needs nothing but a heart and will.

[Moloch]

Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?

I think it has something to do with temptation, but then again, Im not much of a christian!