Monstrous
Apocalypse Soon => Religions, Cults & Sects => Topic started by: ravinclaw on June 29, 2009, 01:05:19 PM
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Now there are alot of them, and you dont even have to look that hard to find them.
Not only amoung the major religions of the world, but also amoung some of the lesser known religions. I have brought it upon myself to find the truth, and as of yet I have not found it.
Instead of writing 8 or 9 pages on this I leave it up to you,
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well everything has some sort of similar meaning. It only changes when someone else percieves of that same thing a different way. Like the lotus flower can be found in Egyptian, Babylonian, Summarian, Hindu, Buddist, etc... The list goes on. Like how the star was a symbol of protection until way later when christians were useing as a sign of the devil to make people not use the 'pagan symbols' but it is coming back. Everything has its cycles and the symbols may stay the same but the meanings change and reverse all the time.
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Yes, you are right, but it runs deeper that that.
example:
two of the worlds most well known religions believe almost exactly the same thing, yet they refuse to even look at each others texts. They think it is a sin. How can knowledge be a sin?
Yes, Im talking about Jews and Muslims.
They are worshiping the same God!!!
they are ignorant of it and kill each other every chance they get.
It is the same story, told from a different point of view.
and there are other thing similarm, amoung many religions,
I think we nead to look into it open minded,
What do we have to fear?
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Actually that has to deal with more of a recent century problem (jews vs. muslims), I recommend looking up the whole formation of the Israeli state after world war two and the six day war. It's really more about territory. They understand that they are worshipping the same god but a lot of christians don't lol. Even Muhammad protected the jews. It is just in the recent centuries that problems have arisen. And those who are not going out and reading each others texts are doing so because of prejudice. So really jews and muslims would be a good example for similarities but bad because muslims didn't start worshipping allah or god or whatever you want to call it till much much later. Before then they were worshipping local deities and persian leftover gods. But yes they have their similarities.
How about just christanity itself. There are so many groups interpreting the same texts differently. But apparently in liberation theology your suppose to interpret the texts in that it can have a liberating mean to those who are undergoing suppression.
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You make some good points, and in around about way what Im getting at is this.
Christianity stems from judism and if jews and muslims worship the same god,
el, why the fighting?
Oh, and Israel has been locked in a so called "holy war" way before WWII
but the point of this whole thread is mearley to discuss the similar things in religions world wide, and they are many
I have my expertese and Im sure you do to,
so I will ask a simple questioun and if you dont waunt to answer you dont have to but,
what religion are, and if you would, tell us alittle about it.
if you have noticed similaritys with other religions, point them out.
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technically if it were a sin for Christians to read Jewish texts then there'd be no old testament.
Universal myth is really nothing new, i think i may even have a thread around here about it, you just have to follow the history of any faith to see where it came from and why the similarities exist; as for the fighting it causes i agree with rave along the political lines, where did Jesus any Buddha or other genuinely attuned spiritual leader ever insist killing people resolves anything? however toss in some land, vague dogma and my leader is better than your leader and the good messages get forgotten.
the Jews have been fighting for their Gd and faith since Abraham left paganism in Ur and any christian who denies the influence they had over christian faith is denying who Christ was and why He spoke out against their religious leaders as for any symbolism...that's strictly a human perception, what symbol or image did Adonai ever give His people to represent Him, directly?
when people see their faith going where it didn't come from they'll stand up and disagree, the protestants versus the roman Catholics is perhaps the best known, but the Quakers versus the puritans is my favorite demonstration of this important option for a persons faith and the difference between hearing your God or letting human babble confuse His wisdom. When men start talking for God and other humans accept those words blindly bad things happen, that's irrelevant to faith, religion or archetype.
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The quakers won right? Thats why we eat quaker oats brand oatmeal. :?
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You're a genius Raz.
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This is quite true, there are a lot of similarities. As an astrologer, i'm'a say this usin' da stars :-D
Since religion first became patriarchal, the tracking of the stars allowed people to recognize and anticipate events which occurred over long periods of time, such as eclipses and full moons. Due to the sky's importance in every day life people began to personify these planetary bodies and stars through myths and as gods. The zodiac is one of the first recorded examples of this method. Leo, belongs to the sun and in later mythology the Sun was also attributed to such figures as Horus the solar messiah of Egypt.
Speaking generally and broadly, Horus was born on December 25th, his mother was Isis- Meri who was a virgin. According to myth when he was born a star in the East was present and 3 kings followed this star in order to locate Horus. He was a teacher of the people at a young age and at 30 he was baptized by Anup and went into the ministry. He had 12 disciples, and was known publicly by many names such as; The Truth, The Light, God's Annointed Son, The Good Shepherd and The Lamb of God. After being betrayed by a guy called Typhon, he was crucified, buried for 3 days and then came back to life.
These life events seem to also fit with many other religious figures of the time. For instance;
Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected. Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected. Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected. Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others. Interestingly, the sacred day of worship of Mithra was Sunday.
Not too mention Jesus Christ, I'm quite sure we are all familiar with his story... the point is, multiple 'saviours' seem to coincidentally fit a very particular mould. This should be noted.
Now to get back to the central idea of past civilisations personifying religious figures through the stars, it's could be that the birth sequence is entirely astrological. The star in the east is Sirius, coincidentally brightest star in the night sky (as venus is not actually a star). Which, on December 24th, aligns with the 3 brightest stars in Orion's Belt (the 3 Kings). These 4 stars point like an arrow to the sunrise or on 25th of December. In other words, Three Kings followed the Star of the East to the birth of the sun.
The virgin mary is most likely the constellation of Virgo the ancient glyph for Virgo is an "m". This would explain why Mary along with other virgin mothers, such as Adonis's mother Myrrha, or Buddha's mother Maya begin with an M. Strangely enough Virgo is also referred to much more traditionally as the 'House of Bread'. Bethlehem translates literally to 'house of bread', this means the place is reference to somewhere in the sky, not here.
Another interesting thing that occurs on December 25th if the winter solstice. From the northern hemisphere, as the days become shorter and colder the sun appears to become smaller. This movement of the Sun and how it coincided with the crops being harvested and withering, was said to symbolise death. By December 22nd, the Sun was officially at it's lowest point in the sky, it becomes stationary for 3 days and during this time is in line with the constellation 'Souther Cross', the it turns around and starts heading back up North, which in turn symbolises rebirth. However people don't celebrate this rebirth of the Sun until spring equinox because this is when the hours of light are longer than the hours of dark.
Therefore, basically all of the major religions in the world can be linked back to seasonal, celestial and utterly universal events and it is simply different cultures interpretations of the same events, that have led to the multiple religions we see here on earth.
(a lot more stuff to say but this is the general idea).
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So you're an astrologist? That's why you wrote about Pluto. Simple and cute.
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jordyn was exactly right in his opening statement, the old testament is the jewish bible, and christians know that,
but ask a diehard christian to read a muslim text and watch what happens
they will go through the roof, I know, Ive made that sugestioun just to point out
the similaritys with the old testament.
I didnt know if I was going to get smacked or killed with prayer and quotes from the
bible.
And as far as the land disputes go, they have been fighting over a speck of desert,
just because its supose to be holy ground.
unless there are other reasons that Ive overlooked.
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So you're an astrologist? That's why you wrote about Pluto. Simple and cute.
I doubt there's anything cute or simple about Pluto. It is the planet of regeneration and in a sense, being 'reborn from the ashes' but yeh, I do study astrology, only an amateur really as I've never set foot in a class or had my chart read professionally. :-P
Wondering if ravinclaw is using this thread to rant about the stupidity of organised religions fighting or in order to actually find links?
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As far as it goes it sure seems that way.
BTW the FACT is simple and cute, not Pluto.
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Ah! I understand! The world makes sense again.
Danke.
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The intentioun to begin with Ryobi, was to find links, but I guess both to be honest.
It just pisses me off how some people can call another group of people wrong, when they wont even look into their beliefs, not even a little bit.
know what I mean?
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Yeh man, I know what you mean. I grew up with organised religion and the only reason people believe another group of people are wrong is because of the different sect. Because it just can't be possible that another group of people are worshipping the same God in a slightly different way, using a slightly different text and under a different name.
A lot of those groups probably, comprehend that their beliefs are very similar, it's the differences between them that shine out more. It's because either side is going to be biased towards the other side and they don't want, nor need to know that they're fighting for the same thing.
Another possibility could be that; even if it becomes widely acknowledged that 2 religions are technically the same, this is a cultural thing now and it would continue to be a cultural issue, a small group of Muslims give birth to children who hate jews, a small group of Jews give birth to children who hate Muslims. It no longer has a religious meaning because; 'that muslim guy killed my jewish dad so this is now personal.' etc.
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We need to teach people that war isn't personal. In the battlefield anything can happen.
We can still hate the people that killed/raped/maimed/stole from those we know as INDIVIDUALS though. (joke post) *<:)
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By jove mate, you've got it! :-D
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Religion is mostly propaganda.
Philosophy for people who in any other case wouldn't have any sense of morality and philosophy.
The subconscious dictatorship which is sometimes overthrown, but mostly - not.
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Mabey, but if there were no truth to it, why do so many people believe it?
could be because people are like sheep, and just waunt to be lead,
some people anyway.
I dont know, what if it is all true?
what if none of it is?
what if........frogs had wings.......they wouldnt bump their ass on the ground when they hop.
who knows?
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Don't you realize that most people don't WANT to think, they want to be told - what to do, what to think.
Without religion there would be chaos, I think, or massive apathy, or an even more unactive society.
Think it like this - Religion Is Philosophy 4 Dummies
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Religion gives people a drive and most of the time a purpose. Deep down, usually that purpose is to serve, it could be one of the only forms of concious selflessness we have left, a lot of the time even that is corrupt.
Don't go losing faith in the world because of that though, because there are still so many left who take that service to God on board and serve him truly. The bible does re-enforce quite a few moral lessons we would be wise to follow and learn from, even if we don't follow christianity. The good samaritan was right to help others, the man who builds his house in a sand bank truly is an idiot and those who posess a strong spirit should be held in high regard despite lack of position in society (Mary Magdalene the prostitute).
The reasons morals exist is partly due to the bible, the reason many hesitate before they kill someone in cold blood is partly due to the commandment; 'You shall not murder'. As a western society we have been raised as Gods children despite our own personal views/preferences and the views/preferences of our parents. We grow up with an opinion on organised religion regardless of wether we have ever been a part of the church or not, because those ideas written down hundreds of years ago still affect us as people, no matter who we are.
That a book holds so much power, that the words of a dead man could become so sough-after is impressive and unfortunately I have to admit, I do follow those words partly because they are true and I partly believe that is the right way to act.
I don't agree with the entire idea but I don't doubt that Jesus existed nor that God was and still is a real force. Neither do I think that these lessons and stories should be ignored or those who follow organised religion, seen as sheep who just want to be told what to do.
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You ever read the book by Dali? He does the same trick as the Bible.
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No I didn't actually. What I find interesting about Dali is that, while he was alive the surrealist community refused to accept him as one of their own because his style wasn't what they deemed surreal. Yet here we are in the 21st Century, quoting him as the most famous and successful surrealists of all time.
How did he use to same trick as the bible?
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Well, look here.
In his book he states quite everywhere possible that he's a genius, he's great, probably the best one, that he's the most trustworthy source for artists, etc, etc - and that way - though it's funny at first, he gains authority in front of the other artists who do not state similar.. truths in their books.
That's a smart psychological trick.
Now, the ideas shown in the Bible are proclaimed by the God Himself, His Son, by angels - the rockstars of their time. Now who would more likely listen to - the God or some travelling and miserable wiseman?
For now, the role-models of the society define what it should be like, see. The Hollywood stars are the same for us as the Greek Gods once were for the world.
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Well, look here.
In his book he states quite everywhere possible that he's a genius, he's great, probably the best one, that he's the most trustworthy source for artists, etc, etc - and that way - though it's funny at first, he gains authority in front of the other artists who do not state similar.. truths in their books.
That's a smart psychological trick.
Now, the ideas shown in the Bible are proclaimed by the God Himself, His Son, by angels - the rockstars of their time. Now who would more likely listen to - the God or some travelling and miserable wiseman?
For now, the role-models of the society define what it should be like, see. The Hollywood stars are the same for us as the Greek Gods once were for the world.
And one of wotan's many aspects was teh wander. the wandering old man that help out with wise words and trinkets...............
God is Hobos.
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It is a very smart psychological trick Dev... even if God didn't right the old testament.
God is hobos, true dat ho.
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hmm, if god can be a smelly old man, den he can be anyone rieght?
HE IS EVERYONE!!!!!! or rather, anyone capable of unassumingly solving our problems and changing our problems via behavioral modification implemented by a short story and/or funny smell.
everyone knows i'm just kidding around here right?
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That actually made a little sence in a screwed up sort of a way.
funny though.
I have no doubt Jesus was a hell of a man and a hell of a philosofer and teacher, I respect him for that alone reguardless if he is the true son of god or not, but mankind has twisted the bible into a tool to control others. Christianity is no longer what it was meant to be, Priests and church leaders throughout the ages have modified the good book for personal gain, or gain for the church anyway, and long long ago the church had just as much authority as the government, monorchy or what ever you waunt to call it.
That was the whole reason for the Priests cant get maried thing, If they had any land, they would have no one to leave it to, so it would go to the church. Books were left out, things were added, It makes me wounder how much of it is origonal, and what happened to Judas' writings anyway, they left them out on purpose, but why? I know what he did, but he also followed along with the other, and surley he wrote some things too.
Its a trust issue with me, not against God himself but the church.
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Yeah. I think that Christianity is a great philosophy for the masses if properly understood, it is kinda revolutionary as the pagan gods mostly tolerated violence, and in that kind of a world a religion that neglects it is probably just perfect.
But I totally agree with you Ravin.
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The quakers won right? Thats why we eat quaker oats brand oatmeal. :?
actually the puritans could be compared to contemporary fundamentals and quakers are now the Society of Friends, i don't think either side lost just changed with the times, i prefer charismatic faith though and Fox was as ideally charismatic as any other person who feels more faith in God and less faith in the world and words of men.
unless you were being faceitious in which case; why bother posting in a thread you only have an interest in mocking?
fundamentalism is always wrong, no matter what stirs it.
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Lighten up. Its not like i seriously tried to undermine the discussion by baiting people to answer sensitive questions that would have degenerated this thread into a mess of flaming and petty name calling.
I just wanted to throw that line in somewhere. its all cool.
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the land that they are always fighting over is the cradle of civilization in many religions. but the problem with that is can anyone provide hard tangible evidence and not just blind faith. can anyone prove that all the "good books" such as the bible,quran etc... are more than the mere bedtime stories and fairytales they almost indefinitley prove themselves to b. religion is also a way for man to explain what he is not able to comprehend. so that leads to a question man has always killed whatb he doesnt understand when will the time b for organized religion. and every religion has their guarded, terrible secrets. why is it that no-one has stood against any of the bs. is there a flaw with religion bad enough that they silence those that discover the truth. would exposing the delusion of religiion trigger the apocalypse because man is not yet ready for the truth
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM#noexternalembed)
Lol!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM#noexternalembed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM#noexternalembed)
Lol!
Wow, I laughed so much xD WAit a minute... Jack Nicholson... is GOD?!
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my computer is a piece of s**t, I cant even watch videos anymore.........damn damn damn
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I feel a fluttering in my stomach whenever I see that. It could be laughter, it could be love.
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the land that they are always fighting over is the cradle of civilization in many religions. but the problem with that is can anyone provide hard tangible evidence and not just blind faith. can anyone prove that all the "good books" such as the bible,quran etc... are more than the mere bedtime stories and fairytales they almost indefinitley prove themselves to b. religion is also a way for man to explain what he is not able to comprehend. so that leads to a question man has always killed whatb he doesnt understand when will the time b for organized religion. and every religion has their guarded, terrible secrets. why is it that no-one has stood against any of the bs. is there a flaw with religion bad enough that they silence those that discover the truth. would exposing the delusion of religiion trigger the apocalypse because man is not yet ready for the truth
the layers of archeology still buried and the fact that most of the earliest intelligences of man including animal husbandry, farming and society all started out in the mesopotamian area.
http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/time/explore/main_mes.html (http://www.mesopotamia.co.uk/time/explore/main_mes.html)
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wam/ht02wam.htm (http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ht/02/wam/ht02wam.htm)
any universal truth exposed would only shatter fragile egos and inflexible minds, those that think for themselves would be peachy keen, regardless of who they place their faith in. before organized religion it was simply animism, fetishes and dreams discovered in dark caves.