The Darker Side > Demons, Demonology and The Devil
Fallen Angels/Satan and my Demon
jordyn:
Going by angel/demon traditional lore, if there are serious changes coming at the end of this year, then the sides are ramping up for that war. *shrugs
I'm sure a lot of people will be experiencing changes in their consciousness, which may include more attunement with the supernatural, a shift in consciousness that will effect that world, to follow spiritual ideology, you have to accept that there's some Universal Energy connecting it all.
slightly off topic but the world is coming into the age of Aquarius, there's going to be a lot more weird universal shift stuff going on.
*http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=13859.new#new
It's a fascinating topic actually.
So if there is this shift to universal enlightenment, more minds are opening, more things are gathering and survival may come down to how you attune your spiritual energy...especially if there's a whole lot more lining up then just planets.
jordyn:
--- Quote from: Jake on December 14, 2012, 03:45:38 PM ---
--- Quote from: jordyn on December 06, 2012, 09:53:02 AM ---Going by angel/demon traditional lore
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What lore? [Citation needed]
--- Quote from: jordyn on December 06, 2012, 09:53:02 AM ---more minds are opening, more things are gathering and survival may come down to how you attune your spiritual energy...especially if there's a whole lot more lining up then just planets.
--- End quote ---
Alignments? "There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. One major alignment occurred in 1962, for example, and two others happened during 1982 and 2000. Each December the Earth and sun align with the approximate center of the Milky Way Galaxy but that is an annual event of no consequence." (Source:NASA)
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i know loki isn't fond of links but www.newadvent.org/cathen/d.htm, straight from the catholic mouth, the malleus maleficarum, monstrous's own monstropedia, delirium's realm has a fantastic collection of their lore, and this tidbit from the Jewish encyclopedia...
..."influence of both the Chaldean and the Persian belief in good and evil spirits, and this dualistic system became a dominant factor of Jewish practice and belief." king Solomon and his sigils, ceremonial magic, theistic satanism and other such magickal practices....
right down to the Sumerian legends from Lilith that gave birth to such stories as Grendel...devils, angels and the sort have been around a lot longer than your perceptions of imagination and reality.
people experience what they can't explain and as humanity evolved so did our beliefs in the supernatural, rather than saying it's all imagination perhaps you can offer a productive explanation for why people have experienced these things, since we became human rather than going the easy route and simply dismissing it as imagination?
before organization and rational came into the light, it was just animism.
anything constructive to offer?
jordyn:
--- Quote from: Jake on December 21, 2012, 04:12:52 AM ---
--- Quote from: jordyn on December 17, 2012, 08:21:40 AM ---devils, angels and the sort have been around a lot longer than your perceptions of imagination and reality.
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So, you are saying that imaginary creatures have been around longer than imagination?
--- Quote from: jordyn on December 17, 2012, 08:21:40 AM ---rather than saying it's all imagination perhaps you can offer a productive explanation for why people have experienced these things, since we became human rather than going the easy route and simply dismissing it as imagination?
--- End quote ---
Michael Shermer, writing in the May, 2009 Scientific American, explained this very clearly:
--- Quote ---Souls, spirits, ghosts, gods, demons, angels, aliens, intelligent designers, government conspirators, and all manner of invisible agents with power and intention are believed to haunt our world and control our lives. Why?
The answer has two parts, starting with the concept of "patternicity," which I defined in my December 2008 column as the human tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise. Consider the face on Mars, the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich, satanic messages in rock music. Of course, some patterns are real. Finding predictive patterns in changing weather, fruiting trees, migrating prey animals and hungry predators was central to the survival of Paleolithic hominids.
The problem is that we did not evolve a baloney-detection device in our brains to discriminate between true and false patterns. So we make two types of errors: a type I error, or false positive, is believing a pattern is real when it is not; a type II error, or false negative, is not believing a pattern is real when it is. If you believe that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind (a type I error), you are more likely to survive than if you believe that the rustle in the grass is just the wind when it is a dangerous predator (a type II error). Because the cost of making a type I error is less than the cost of making a type II error and because there is no time for careful deliberation between patternicities in the split-second world of predator-prey interactions, natural selection would have favored those animals most likely to assume that all patterns are real.
But we do something other animals do not do. As large-brained hominids with a developed cortex and a theory of mind—the capacity to be aware of such mental states as desires and intentions in both ourselves and others—we infer agency behind the patterns we observe in a practice I call "agenticity": the tendency to believe that the world is controlled by invisible intentional agents. We believe that these intentional agents control the world, sometimes invisibly from the top down (as opposed to bottom-up causal randomness). Together patternicity and agenticity form the cognitive basis of shamanism, paganism, animism, polytheism, monotheism, and all modes of Old and New Age spiritualisms...
There is now substantial evidence from cognitive neuroscience that humans readily find patterns and impart agency to them, well documented in the new book SuperSense by University of Bristol psychologist Bruce Hood. Examples: children believe that the sun can think and follows them around; because of such beliefs, they often add smiley faces on sketched suns. Adults typically refuse to wear a mass murderer’s sweater, believing that "evil" is a supernatural force that imparts its negative agency to the wearer (and, alternatively, that donning Mr. Rogers'cardigan will make you a better person). A third of transplant patients believe that the donor's personality is transplanted with the organ. Genital-shaped foods (bananas, oysters) are often believed to enhance sexual potency. Subjects watching geometric shapes with eye spots interacting on a computer screen conclude that they represent agents with moral intentions.
"Many highly educated and intelligent individuals experience a powerful sense that there are patterns, forces, energies and entities operating in the world," Hood explains. "More important, such experiences are not substantiated by a body of reliable evidence, which is why they are supernatural and unscientific. The inclination or sense that they may be real is our supersense."
We are natural-born supernaturalists.
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no, imagination is an exclusive human trait and we've had spirits since we discovered humanity, i'm refering to your personal perception that the subject matter of this board is imagination. I'm hoping for discussion on it, there's not much of a discussion if you state it's imagination but fail to follow up on how and why you can say things with such certainity, I actually agree with Michael Shermer...
He's not making simple statements "it's imagination"...so why do some people experience the supernatural and others don't?...i hope it doesn't come down to some have the ability to "imagine" and others don't, that's as disappointing as a cut and paste argument.
Personally i think it's the amount of certain chemicals that naturally occur in our brain that has some effect on our "supersense", if we're all "natural-born supernaturalists" why are some people not born prone to the supernatural or is it more of a nurture philosophy of experience that changes as we grow?
For whatever reasons, they've always been there for me...no matter what the archetype, what's there may have changed, but "It's" still there.
jordyn:
i offered very clear citations for my statement of lores and i'm not disagreeing that a lot of it was created from the human mind from some primitive need to connect the dots, but i feel you dismiss the power of belief too easily.
atheism is on the rise, but so is a belief in the supernatural, it's just no longer contained by a religious organizations and as the interest continues to grow so will these sorts of issues. a balance between reality and unreality is admirable but without an understanding people struggling to find a balance between the two can go to dark and dangerous places, psychologically, some fail to have the strength to climb out or not fortunate enough that someone was there to catch them.
talking about the practical and impractical sides of this topic is good, i like the discussion...but it'd be nice to include those who are less confident in what they're brain is experiencing to come to their own understanding, as compared to those who've formed it for years over many arguments, both pro and con.
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