[jordyn]

tiamat is actually a mesopotamian deity, not so much a demon but more like a roman titan...you can follow eastern religion up to the jews from this origin.   considering the origins from the kelts migrating up from the ancient poland area(earlier temples are found in germany.  add in the picts from ancient scottland and the gauls from the area of france the prehistoric sorcerer would be a more ancient druid god than a middle eastern chaos creator.    do any magiciand pay attention to what created the cultures that they try to recreate...king solomon would not have been a factor until priests and monks brought the east to the very north...being of scottish/polish/french heritage i'm a gaelic kelt from the name wiseheart.  i even get to wear the wishart crest and tartan...but by the druids explanation i should be a hereditarty ceremonial magician, hence tiamat and king solomon would be more akin to me then any druid. crops, war, death and the seasons  were their concerns not demons, they had the tuatha up north

[Tronth]

I was unaware of this version of where tiamat came from that is very interesting. Wiseheart? That name comes from the clan of sorcerers back in gaelic times. i guess magician would be a close definition but they are two totally different things. And solomon the wise was no king, he worked with saul and david. and im not so sure that a sorcerer would have a closer tie to him than a druid considering that solomon despised sorcerers with a passion. it was against god to follow those kinds of magicks and solomon was a man of god.

[confused_mystery]

ah very interesting, how would a druid know that they're a druid - as in they naturally have that magic and all that ?

[Tronth]

a druid wouldnt know he was druid unless he knew about druidry in all its essence or it was passed down to him from his lineage.

[confused_mystery]

ah ok so even after puberty he wouldn't know by then if he were a druid or not ?
i heard thats when the abilities kick in.

[Tronth]

Not exactly the abilities kick in after the rite of passage, when a boy becomes a man, this does in general happen during puberty. At the age of 15 a boy is supposed to spend one month on his own in the woods and survive. If returns home succesful he will attain his power if he is unsuccesful then his powers will be weak and feeble. pretty much worthless

[jordyn]

I was unaware of this version of where tiamat came from that is very interesting. Wiseheart? That name comes from the clan of sorcerers back in gaelic times. i guess magician would be a close definition but they are two totally different things. And solomon the wise was no king, he worked with saul and david. and im not so sure that a sorcerer would have a closer tie to him than a druid considering that solomon despised sorcerers with a passion. it was against god to follow those kinds of magicks and solomon was a man of god.

actually he was david's son, a king and in the end his crime was worse than his grandfather saul, saul consulted a witch, solomon began to worship other gods through his pagan wives.

and time period wouldn't work with him being related to druids either...ummm...unless he migrated up north three hundred years after the druid culture died?

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Solomon.html

or read kings 1, that has his story.

the history, the timeline of cultures and the root of their religions just don't work with it.

http://www.historytoday.com/MainArticle.aspx?m=33354&amid=30283349

and considering my wishhart ancestors were presbytarian, and as i do worship his God minus the pagan idoltry, learning from his downfall i actually would have more in common with him than those who don't.

and to finish it off...to know the most about keltic priests, look into keltic culture...in the grand scheme of keltic daily life they were pretty useless, however they did up the brutality of their sacrifices and amount of offerings towards the end, the bog bodies tell those stories. 

and tiamat is even older than them all, for all intents and purposes i suppose the sumerians would have the oldest organized religion, i don't believe i'm actually suggesting this, but simon's necronomicon offers a pretty simple understanding of what and how the mesopotamians exactly worshiped.

as for tiamat... http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/gods/ladies/ladytiamat.html

[Tronth]

Well my friend you are taking information out of the bible which was written and twisted by man so there is no telling what is true or false in the book. I take nothing from the bible except the values that it tries to teach. I can tell you as well that the druids have been around alot longer than the bible. so your bases of a timeline has been crushed as for tiamat being older than them all you are correct but tiamat wasnt cast out of heaven until about the time that god gave solomon the book of life. Tiamat was the one who started the war between angels and demons, not satan. Also keltic priests have nothing to do with celtic druids, celtic preists taught the teachings of the pagan gods, the celtic druids where like barbarians that traveled the known world alone until brought together by solomon in the name of all that is good. Please dont try to tell me that my theories are wrong when you are taking things from books written by common men.

[Levinthross]

hold on wait tiamat is older than the angels she is a chaos titan very much akin to the leviathin and the older greek titans whocracked the cosmic egg with there serpentine bodys creating time and order titans live ouside the laws of reality and man no human or dimensional being has magic no matter how powerful that oculd effect tiamat or any titan unless you were of divine descent. Plus the big thing is druidic magic and solomon ancient arabian and egyptian goetics are so vastly different if applied on the difference was on a smaller scale it be like calling choclate milk coke distilled from moose pee. Not only that but im pretty sure Stonehenge is older than King solomon so if king solomon went back in time to create stonehenge then became his one father switched races switched nations switched paradighms of magic switched gods switched his personal lore and was reincarnated into his own family your theory is pretty much fullproof.

Now all this about celtic druids being like barbarians yes in the early days they were all systems of magic that are based on sorcery derive themselves from shamanistic forms like channeling animal spirits which we see in the barbarian berserker rage. But again your telling me some king from egypt came to north eurpe and hounded together a bunch of shaman priests and turned them into a league of kickass human sacraficing nature lovers without leaving a scrap of synchrotism with egyptian and arabic magic systems even there divination forms are vastly different.


The druids will live as long as there are dryads the spirits ofnature who gave them there knowledge. In druidry where young fifteen year olds have to prove ther manhood to gain there power is alot like native american coming of age ceremonies in order to find your totem or guardian spirit. I find it interesting that most witches with magick in there heritage also find that despite the powers they have as children either fade or increase expeninteally once the coming of age ceremony has been completed.

And thank you jordynfor stating most of this early not trying to seem personal against oyu tronth i do beleive you are a druid whos ways are most likely very close to those of old but you know the magicians who managed to cleave together information from which most of our traditions are based on like to mix mash and do the hanky panky.

[Tronth]

completely understandable, Now i have to pull out the faults in your logic, its just what i do, you are correct about your version of tiamat but you must remember that each religion has its own version. i admire your euphinism on solomon that had to be well thought out but no i cant agree with you. All the locations and timelines that are put out on stonehenge and solomon are all common day assumptions based on a technology that guesses. And solomon the wise with his nine druids werent just scrounged up, they were sought out. also dryads, very wise creatures by the way, did not in any way help the druids the dryads stayed to themselves only leaving their small communities for special reasons.

i agree with you about how it is interesting that one rite of passage determines whether you keep your powers or not, in the info passed down to me the rite of passage was to teach you your survival skills as well as virtues of patience ond concentration, and as you know all magick users need these to perform well, im not sure as to what the rite of passage is for sorcerers or witches is so i cant comment on that.

and i do realize the mixing and mashing which is where we all clash when we have different info. my purpose here is to explain the druid side of it you guys may have a completely different story and i cant tell you your wrong, but just like the bible there are various versions scattered all over the world, well kind of. druids dont have any manuscripts anymore...

[Levinthross]

Now with that explanation i can be completely worng   but the druidic view of solomon and his attendees seems very different do you mind if i ask where i can find hte info or would you be willing to pm me a summary?? but if the knowledge is sacred i understand and respect that also?

Secondly forgive me if ive been misguided but is it not the dryads who diculged the ancient ways of nature to mankind and by draydsi may be synchroniczing them with norse light elves but i was under the impression that druids originally communed with nature in order to gain the knowledge that htey had amassed.

[Tronth]

Actually this is where i got lost in my teachings. Druids did not originally use nature is was more astronimical and of god, nature wasnt used until stonehenge was built, this is when they realized that there strength was enhanced by earthly objects such as the stones.

[jordyn]

no worries levinthross, i accept there are druids too and apreciate your prehistorical references, i could see the prehistoric sorcer being responsible for stonehedge and the order of bards and oviates are most magnificent in recreating the religious order, but they stick to provable archeological and historical understandings and have no problems admitting they're recreationists. perhaps thats the issue i have with his glamorization is all the mishmashing, ignoring provable cultural facts. dryads are actually greco roman, the other side of the pond have the tuatha de danan(fairies). tiamat was mesopotamian and in the bible timeline would have had closer relations to Abraham, since he was actually called out of sumeria by God himself, not a third generation israelite king that screwed up by returning to the gods Abraham was called away from.  most people just fail to realize how passionate i am about early gaelic culture and fascination with the israelites.

[Tronth]

i understand an interest in culture but you cant claim your interests as facts that how arguements come out. i dont mean to sound mean or arguementative but you have to look at both sides of the spectrum before you see truth or relatively close truth.

[jordyn]

i understand an interest in culture but you cant claim your interests as facts that how arguements come out. i dont mean to sound mean or arguementative but you have to look at both sides of the spectrum before you see truth or relatively close truth.

passions and fascinations lead to study and exploration... the stories of rhianna or the machas, the sheer joy they had bragging before battle naked and fierce, queen boadica, the picts!!! Their metalsmithing, sexual equality before it was cool, you want facts?

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=971&HistoryID=aa99&gtrack=pthc

no mention of solomon here...

http://druidism.suite101.com/article.cfm/druids_origin_trads_mystery

here's where their christian associations come into play...

http://www.konig.org/timeline.htm

an established biblical timeline

and the sumerian twist...

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=aa53


stonehedge completed 1500 bc

http://www.britannia.com/history/h7.html

http://www.historycentral.com/dates/1500bc.html

so sorry, established fact does indeed contradict your grandfathers stories, my passion just assured i studied more than the llewelyn books available at borders.

i've never bought into the hereditary stuff though, too corny for my tastes.  Anything with will, a soul and intent can master anything they claim, but they need more then bedtime stories to convince me that only certain people are privy to these powers due to some exclusive membership.

but sure, i'll try to see your side...give me something besides a story though, i verified why i don't buy it, proven history just doesn't validate your side.