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Monstrous People => The Psi Zone => Topic started by: Moneyman on December 01, 2011, 03:27:47 pm

Title: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 01, 2011, 03:27:47 pm
Note:
I have read an advice thread on mediation here(http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=9502.0 (http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=9502.0)) and I intend to read it carefully. For now, I'm simply asking for your personal thoughts on an experience I had.


I have been trying to learn how to meditate for some time now. It is VERY difficult for me because I have ADHD, the real kind that your born with and not the one that results from lax parenting. It requires a huge amount of effort on my part to concentrate, much more then the average person usually needs to put in. Needless to say, meditation is not something that comes to me easily.

Anyways, I thought I would relate to you guys a recording from a journal I keep on meditation. I feel I had a breakthrough, but I'm having trouble repeating the results. I'll give it to you guys word for word(brackets are after comments), let me know what you guys think about this:

Quote from: Moneyman's Journal
Saturaday Oct. 15 11:50pm:
1:34 - Efforts to concentrate begin. My first priority is to stop daydreaming and to have all focus on reality.

1:36 - I will practice a concentration meditation(just simple concentration, not anything special) for a few minutes.

1:40 - I attempted to focus on nothing and I was partially successful. There was loud music in the background, music I knew. It was difficult to drown out the music at first, I wasn't sure how to go about meditating. Eventually I closed my eyes and tried to focus on not listening to the music. I was breathing irregular and shallow. I focused on the sound of breathing, it was taxing to try and control my breathing. I started to feel something strange, it was calming, it felt like I was hyper-focusing and "letting go" at the same time.

Results during:
-An unusual feeling that is difficult to describe. I've never felt it before, or at least never this strong.

-There was also a strange feeling in my head, it was almost ticklish, yet it felt like my head was tensing up.

-I lost focus of my breathing and could have sworn I stopped altogether, yet I did not feel the urge to breathe. I felt relaxed with my breathing and didn't stress over breathing at all.

-I suddenly felt a sense of stillness. I was calm, alert, relaxed, and energized. It was no longer a struggle to concentrate or control my mind.

-There was a change in emotion as well. It is best described as a feeling of eternity, a feeling like one gets when looking at stars and contemplating the Universe's astronomical size. It was like standing on top of a tall mountain and staring into the distant horizon.

-Time slowed down considerably, I no longer felt rushed, time no longer passed by. If I where to guess, I entered this state a minute or two after I began meditation at 1:36pm. If I remember correctly this state lasted about two minutes. Those two minutes seemed to last as long as five minutes normally feels. The whole session felt longer then four minutes, it felt closer to what ten minutes normally feels like.

Results After:
-A heightened sense of awareness.

-Increased energy both physically and mentally(not astral/esoteric, just regular)

-Decreased anxiety and a sense of clarity and calm.

-Improved concentration, less effort needed to control mind.

-Unusual feeling from session continued after session.

-The world around me felt real, I felt as if I had gone from being half asleep to being fully alert.

-All effects from the session slowly wore off as I wrote this(I hand write this in a book). I still feel a little more relaxed then before, and it has been nearly an hour since.

End Result:

1:36 - Session began.
1:40 - Session ended.
2:34 - Writing finished.

I have just barely grazed the outer fringes of meditation, it took a lot of effort for me to even attempt it. I still need much more practice, especially using the advice I read on that article I mentioned.

One of the physical signs I look for in a successful meditation(or at least, basic control of the mind) is whether or not my sense of time slows down. The more time slows down, the more I'm concentrating and allowing my subconscious to free up my conscious mind(or at least thats my theory).

I should also mention that I take Dexedrine, a stimulant, to help concentration and fight my day time fatigue from insomnia(I can't fall asleep before 1-2am without drugs), just in case they may cause problems with meditation.

What do you guys think? Any advice or things you'd like to point out that I should think about?
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Jake on December 01, 2011, 03:40:55 pm
Just out of interest, is your source of dexy's Adderall? I'm not sure - were I in that position - whether I would be prepared to endure the psychosis-related side effects of (2S)-1-phenylpropan-2-amine. Meditation and dexy's just seem such diametrically opposed "state-of-mind" inducers, Ill be really interested to follow how you progress through this. Good luck with your efforts, keep us posted.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Loki on December 01, 2011, 04:37:31 pm
In the same sort of unreliable meditation stimulator, a friend was using brainwave stimulation through binaural beats to change his brain frequency.

Alpha waves describe the electrical activity of the brain in the frequency from 8 to 12 hz. That activity occurs naturally in periods of light relaxation or when the eyes are closed but the person is awake.

It is generally believed that alpha waves are dominant brainwaves in people who are in a relaxed or meditative state. It is also present in creative or day dreaming states. It has been also detected also that children tend to stay more time in alpha states than adults.

You can download those generators on the net but be careful there are side effects!
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Jake on December 01, 2011, 05:00:04 pm
I've tried the binaural beats - I can't make claims for them beyond my own, subjective, personal experience, but I certainly found them very relaxing. For example, I too suffer from insomnia, but mine is mainly due to chronic tinnitus I think - the ringing is SO loud when you're alone in the dark - and binaural beats have occasionally got me in to a good state of relaxation for sleep onset.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 01, 2011, 06:51:30 pm
Just out of interest, is your source of dexy's Adderall?

No, I take two 15mg Dextroamphetamine sulfate tablets.

Quote
In the same sort of unreliable meditation stimulator, a friend was using brainwave stimulation through binaural beats to change his brain frequency.

I'm a bit confused, I don't recall mentioning a meditation stimulator. Where you referring to the Dexedrine, or something else? The dexedrine isn't for meditation specifically, its just to improve my day to day concentration and combat daytime fatigue. If you think dexedrine will have a noticeable impact on my meditation or anything else important, I can discontinue its use. I've been planning to do so for a while anyway.

As for these brainwave stimulators, what sort of side effects are there? Also, do you think its better to use them or try and master meditation without them?

I should also point out that I take two 100mg Seroquel(Quetiapine) tablets at night to induce sleep. They are anti-psychotics, but my doctor prescribes them off label as a sleeping aid.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Loki on December 02, 2011, 03:02:40 am
No one is interested by the details of your prescription. Tablets are chemical drugs and only your doctor can tell you if its good or not for your health or your activities.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: AWBrielle on December 02, 2011, 12:43:23 pm
No one is interested by the details of your prescription. Tablets are chemical drugs and only your doctor can tell you if its good or not for your health or your activities.

I respect you as the administrator, Loki, but that was incredibly rude and neither necessary or true. Jake wanted to know, thus he's interested in the details of MM's prescription.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Nina on December 03, 2011, 03:08:58 am
incredibly rude and neither necessary

Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: AWBrielle on December 03, 2011, 10:54:08 am
incredibly rude and neither necessary

Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?

You should probably read exactly what I was responding to. "No one is interested by the details of your prescription." Yes, incredibly rude and unnecessary. It's important to know what's going on (which is along the lines of what you're saying to me anyway, so we're pretty much on the same page. :P ).
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Nina on December 03, 2011, 11:36:02 am
so we're pretty much on the same page

True, but also, each of us is different and reacts differently according to something. Sure, maybe a bit rude, but then again, if i had a friend that wanted to do the same and i was worried, id prolly be way more rude than that. Smacks and slaps included *grins*

It is up to Moneyman to respond to that.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 03, 2011, 04:39:54 pm
Quote
Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?

1. Dexedrine is not an anti-psychotic.

2. Quetiapine is, but its only used as a sleeping aid. Its not part of "my therapy"...That sounds to much like...well...therapy  :-P

3. I have been planning to discontinue using these medications to help rule out any effect on my sleeping. Oh and I specifically talked with my doctor about this. I probably should have stated that.

Quote
It is up to Moneyman to respond to that.

To be honest, I avoid conflicts involving "mean words", and if somebody else is bothered by it, I usually just let them handle it. You could say I prefer stealth, but I honestly just don't give a fark unless it becomes a problem(for me :|)

Seeing as how this thread is acquiring some kindling, I'll state clearly that it was more then likely caused by me not specifically stating that the above mentioned information. So just to clarify, I'm discontinuing my non-psychiatric drugs on doctors orders and though Loki's harsh words have crushed my inner soul and made my heart bleed, I'll survive.

In other news...does anybody have ideas to help meditate? Specifically on the "stop thinking" part, which I have quite a bit of trouble with. Is there some sort of ancient riddle I should contemplate...or will "stop thinking" work just fine?
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: AWBrielle on December 03, 2011, 05:05:26 pm
All right. I'm not even going to bother talking about how much patronization doesn't help this conversation in any way, shape, or form.

Since this thread is about ADVICE, that's what I'm going to give.

In other news...does anybody have ideas to help meditate? Specifically on the "stop thinking" part, which I have quite a bit of trouble with. Is there some sort of ancient riddle I should contemplate...or will "stop thinking" work just fine?

When people say "stop thinking," it isn't so black-and-white as it's made out to be. To stop thinking is to have progressed to a very high state of meditation. The best way to get there is to begin your meditation in a calm, quiet environment and focus on your breathing. You won't get to the "stop thinking" phase on your first go. Just focus on your breathing and block everything else out. Do this for as long as you can, every day. When you start thinking about something else, stop. And restart. Go back to focusing on your breathing pattern (inhale...exhale...inhale...exhale... and so on and so forth). Some people count, instead, in their heads. That works, too, although counting generates thought more often than not, which is why I recommend focusing on breathing.

Eventually, you can try doing this in environments that are noisy. Just focus on your breathing. See what it does. If it doesn't help at all, go back to practicing on your own.

Edit: I realize I said "Just focus on your breathing" at least four times in one go. Whoops. Modified. You get the idea. :P
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Jake on December 03, 2011, 06:16:22 pm
Instead of trying to attain an empty mind state, where you "stop thinking", it is perhaps easier to think of meditation as a "calm mind" - you are thinking, but your thoughts are focused and not the usual internal chatter we have going on in our heads. In the technique described by AWBrielle, for example, your focus is only on your breathing: by removing other, unimportant thoughts, you are de-cluttering your mind, not switching it off =)
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 03, 2011, 06:26:10 pm
Eventually, you can try doing this in environments that are noisy. Just focus on your breathing. See what it does. If it doesn't help at all, go back to practicing on your own.

Edit: I realize I said "Just focus on your breathing" at least four times in one go. Whoops. Modified. You get the idea. :P

Quote
Instead of trying to attain an empty mind state, where you "stop thinking", it is perhaps easier to think of meditation as a "calm mind" - you are thinking, but your thoughts are focused and not the usual internal chatter we have going on in our heads. In the technique described by AWBrielle, for example, your focus is only on your breathing: by removing other, unimportant thoughts, you are de-cluttering your mind, not switching it off =)

So what I'm gathering from this is that the key to emptying your mind isn't by trying to manually switch off everything...but by hyper-focusing on a single element. I think that is the point I was missing from every meditation except the one in my journal, in that one I actually focused on my breathing.

The only problem I have with breathing is that I always seem to be out of breathe when I focus on it. Even though I breathe properly by filling the lower part of my lungs, it feels like something is constricting my chest. I think it might be the way I'm sitting, or possibly the result of me breathing erratically. I might just need practice, but it seems to me I'm doing something wrong.

Also, in my journal I described the effects the meditation had on me. The meditation itself was still quite primitive, and I held the heightened state of mind for only thirty seconds or so. But those thirty seconds had a profound and unexpected effect on me. Its safe to say I've never experienced a feeling like that before, ever. Is this a common occurrence with basic meditation?
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: AWBrielle on December 03, 2011, 07:52:03 pm
Absolutely. And if you keep at it, it'll go further. If your breathing is getting erratic, then there are a few options to consider. Contrary to popular belief, breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth will not do anything for you, so I would just breathe one way. Don't force your breath. Just - let go. Let your body take control, and have your mind focus on it. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Nina on December 04, 2011, 03:49:46 am
I'm discontinuing my non-psychiatric drugs on doctors orders

Now, that changes a lot ;) I wish you good luck with meditation :)
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: matthew321 on December 04, 2011, 08:03:54 am
I have not posted on here for quite some time, but since my article was cited I feel it necessary to do so. I have been working on an updated copy of the light overview I offered. That whole overview of meditation was completed in a short amount of time and only reflected my position. "One shoe does not fit all"  is the case with meditation and an update is in order to reflect that.

So I ask the author of this thread, do you day dream? Do you space out?

Why am I asking such odd questions? Well whether or not you realize it and choose to take this perspective, such habits could also be considered a form of meditation. You are relaxed and visualizing something. With that in mind, if such method is the way the goal is accomplished then perhaps build your technique on that catalyst. (If that is what works, use that to make your meditation more successful)

This is obviously a starting point, but if you can do this then despite any preconceived obstacles in the way (ADHD), the goal is still able to be reached.

Don't limit meditation to just sitting or lying down and closing one's eyes, starting that way will be a bore. I suggest envisioning something fun and more suited to your learning style.

What do you want to accomplish with meditation? What is the goal? How do you see your life changing with meditation?

Once you know what you want then seeking it will become easier.

I also would like to make a note that I am trying to walk a fine line between visual meditation and dreaming. I am just using dreams as a catalyst here.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 04, 2011, 07:26:20 pm
So I ask the author of this thread, do you day dream? Do you space out?

Why am I asking such odd questions? Well whether or not you realize it and choose to take this perspective, such habits could also be considered a form of meditation. You are relaxed and visualizing something. With that in mind, if such method is the way the goal is accomplished then perhaps build your technique on that catalyst. (If that is what works, use that to make your meditation more successful)

So day dreaming can be used as a form of meditation? I guess I never thought of that since I usually viewed my daydreaming as more of a problem. They usually distract me from what I'm doing and can become an unusually addictive habit. Its easy for me to just let my mind wander aimlessly from thought to thought, but it feels more like I'm doing something wasteful. But I suppose if I used my day dreams in a purposeful way, they could become a valuable asset.

Quote
What do you want to accomplish with meditation? What is the goal? How do you see your life changing with meditation?

I guess the most basic goal, for me, is ultimately mental CONTROL. Although meditation is about relaxing the mind, it also involves the development of control over ones mind, which is something I value a lot.

The more important goal I eventually have in mind is discovery. Discovery about myself, and about the things beyond myself. The things I've read about the occult, other dimensions, other-worldly beings, other levels of reality, all those things will remain just a story unless I venture forth and experience it for myself.

Once I've become proficient in basic meditation, I can hope to attempt the advanced meditation you spoke of in your article.
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: matthew321 on December 06, 2011, 05:27:43 pm
As I said, daydreaming is not your obstacle. You can visualize things and do it often. Your weakness is now your strength. Use that "problem" to shape your beginning methods. Try to daydream about something in particular. Be in control of the daydream, don't let it flow without your hand. This will enhance, visualization and control. Thus, you will be building discipline which in my understanding will be the "control" you seek.

Your idle habit will then become more frequent and more easily influenced. Once you can provoke the daydreams, I would recommend closing your eyes and doing the same thing. Not, sitting or lying down, but at a desk or in a chair, the location of a normal daydream. It is still a daydream, but your eyes are closed. These are "baby steps" and if you want to try to speed the process up, feel free.

You will find you have more control then you would have previously conceived.

There is a common phrase "mind over matter", your mind can overpower your outside or inner influence to accomplish what you want.

(However,  it helps to believe in mind over matter, in order to have mind over matter work...)

Another great tactic is take 10 big breaths and exhale as much as you can. You should feel light headed.... It it about 5-10 more times after feeling light headed... Instant relaxation.

Stretching all your muscles is also a good idea, I like to do a workout before I relax... So I feel like I "deserve" it more.

Feel free to utilize my advice in any manner you see fit, this is just MY advice, not the ONLY advice. If it does not work, do not fret, you simply try something else.

(However, with such a mindset, I also get the added benefit of being unable to be wrong)
Title: Re: Meditation Advice
Post by: Moneyman on December 12, 2011, 07:20:39 pm
Life's been getting pretty busy, so I haven't been able to focus on things as much as I would like to.

My ability to control day dreams is actually very powerful. When I was a kid, I used to pace or run back and forth in specific area while day dreaming of something. It was mostly a habit, and it became a pretty addictive one. I often day dream while carrying on day to day activities, in fact I'm almost always day dreaming of something. Sometimes I use it to help accomplish a task I'm doing, but usually I just day dream about something that entertains me.

I almost always day dream myself to sleep, in fact I think it might be the reason I almost never dream lucid(although that has been changing as of late). I day dream so frequently that I sometimes feel like I'm living half-asleep, reality starts to feel like a mere fantasy. Sometimes I would lie down and fantasize about something for entertainment(and it wasn't the naughty kind...usually...), much like watching movie or playing a video game.

I think I might already have the control needed to take my day dreaming to the next level. I already have times I would lie down, close my eyes, and fantasize about something deeply.

The question I have is...what is the "next level"? Can I use the fantasy as a method to commune with another intelligent being such as these spirit guardians I keep hearing about? Should I use it as a method to examine or influence my physical or astral body? Is this a path to "astral projection", or is that something different entirely? Should I use the day dream to practice "mind over matter"?

I really don't know where this is heading, or where to begin. Perhaps I'll just start by deeply fantasizing about something and perfect my abilities. I'll try and make the fantasy as vivid and realistic as possible.