Monstrous
Apocalypse Soon => Religions, Cults & Sects => Topic started by: Sensitive on August 15, 2005, 08:13:53 AM
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Does it not say that in fact The Devil is the Father and also the Creator of the physical world? I was reading a book that said this and stated quotes etc. Strange I had a dream that Christianity had got it the wrong way round and in fact God was the evil one... I have the wierdest dreams.
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Depends upon what kind of books you read, Shaun. I'm sure there's one out there that says the Queen of the Pumpkins created the world and we're all having a party on October 31st. :D
Satan translates as "the Adversary; accuser". When used as a proper name, the Hebrew word so rendered has the article “the adversary” (Job 1:6-12; Job 2:1-7). In the New Testament it is used as interchangeable with Diabolos, or the devil, and is so used more than thirty times.
He is also called “the dragon,” “the old serpent” (Rev 12:9; Rev 20:2); “the prince of this world” (Joh 12:31; Joh 14:30); “the prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2); “the god of this world” (2Co 4:4);“the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” (Eph 2:2). The distinct personality of Satan and his activity among men are thus obviously recognized. He tempted our Lord in the wilderness (Mat 4:1-11). He is “Beelzebub, the prince of the devils” (Mat 12:24). He is “the constant enemy of God, of Christ, of the divine kingdom, of the followers of Christ, and of all truth; full of falsehood and all malice, and exciting and seducing to evil in every possible way.” His power is very great in the world. He is a “roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (1Pe 5:8 ). Men are said to be “taken captive by him” (2Ti 2:26). Christians are warned against his “devices” (2Co 2:11), and called on to “resist” him (Jam 4:7).
Christ redeems his people from “him that had the power of death, that is, the devil” (Heb 2:14). Satan has the “power of death,” not as lord, but simply as executioner.
As for your dream, well, that's the strange thing about dreams - they are usually a load of bollox :D
~ Viper ~
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It may say that somewhere, but not in the Bible. The creation of the world can be found in the book of Genesis chpt 1. The devil is a CREATED being, God created him and everything else for that matter. I am a little shocked that someone as spiritual as you are, Sensitive, has yet to read the Bible. You should give it a go, it may suprise you.
ZRY
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It may say that somewhere, but not in the Bible. The creation of the world can be found in the book of Genesis chpt 1. The devil is a CREATED being, God created him and everything else for that matter. I am a little shocked that someone as spiritual as you are, Sensitive, has yet to read the Bible. You should give it a go, it may suprise you.
ZRY
I made a pact with myself that I would discover what I can about the beyond through my own personal experiences, meditations etc. then I had that calling, I then got a friend of mine to do me a reading and it wasn't a calling. More the spirit world trying to get me learn in a different way (I am too forward).
Depends upon what kind of books you read, Shaun. I'm sure there's one out there that says the Queen of the Pumpkins created the world and we're all having a party on October 31st.
Satan translates as "the Adversary; accuser". When used as a proper name, the Hebrew word so rendered has the article “the adversary” (Job 1:6-12; Job 2:1-7). In the New Testament it is used as interchangeable with Diabolos, or the devil, and is so used more than thirty times.
He is also called “the dragon,” “the old serpent” (Rev 12:9; Rev 20:2); “the prince of this world” (Joh 12:31; Joh 14:30); “the prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2); “the god of this world” (2Co 4:4);“the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” (Eph 2:2). The distinct personality of Satan and his activity among men are thus obviously recognized. He tempted our Lord in the wilderness (Mat 4:1-11). He is “Beelzebub, the prince of the devils” (Mat 12:24). He is “the constant enemy of God, of Christ, of the divine kingdom, of the followers of Christ, and of all truth; full of falsehood and all malice, and exciting and seducing to evil in every possible way.” His power is very great in the world. He is a “roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (1Pe 5:8 ). Men are said to be “taken captive by him” (2Ti 2:26). Christians are warned against his “devices” (2Co 2:11), and called on to “resist” him (Jam 4:7).
Christ redeems his people from “him that had the power of death, that is, the devil” (Heb 2:14). Satan has the “power of death,” not as lord, but simply as executioner.
As for your dream, well, that's the strange thing about dreams - they are usually a load of bollox
~ Viper ~
You could at least be serious about it. For all you know, you've all been conned into worshipping the wrong God.. :wink:
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I'll keep praying for you anyway. It seems illogical to me to answer what you thought was a call from God by going to a medium (whom God said not to go to) instead of reading what He has to say. To each his own.
ZRY
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A created being. Thank you, Zak, for pointing that out. It is one of the most misunderstood aspects of Satan, and many young people today incorrectly associate the Deceiver with godly powers. He belongs to the angelic order of beings. He is by nature one of the sons of Elohīm (Job 1:6). He has fallen, and by virtue of his personal forcefulness has become the leader of the anarchic forces of wickedness. As a free being he has merged his life in evil and has become altogether and hopelessly evil. As a being of high intelligence he has gained great power and has exercised a wide sway over other beings. As a created being the utmost range of his power lies within the compass of that which is permitted. It is, therefore, hedged in by the providential government of God and essentially limited. The Biblical emphasis upon the element of falsehood in the career of Satan might be taken to imply that his kingdom may be less in extent than appears. At any rate, it is confined to the cosmic sphere and to a limited portion of time.
It is also doomed. In the closely related passages 2Pe 2:4 and Jud 1:6 it is affirmed that God cast the angels, when they sinned, down to Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. This both refers to the constant divine control of these insurgent forces and also points to their final and utter destruction. The putting of Satan in bonds is evidently both constant and progressive. The essential limitation of the empire of evil and its ultimate overthrow are foreshadowed in the Book of Job (chapters 38 through 41), where Yahweh's power extends even to the symbolized spirit of evil.
According to synoptic tradition, our Lord in the crisis of temptation immediately following the baptism (Mt 4 and parallel) met and for the time conquered Satan as His own personal adversary. This preliminary contest did not close the matter, but was the earnest of a complete victory. According to Luke (Luk 10:18), when the Seventy returned from their mission flushed with victory over the powers of evil, Jesus said: 'I saw Satan fall as lightning from heaven.' In every triumph over the powers of evil Christ beheld in vision the downfall of Satan. In connection with the coming of the Hellenists who wished to see Him, Jesus asserted (Joh 12:31), “Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.” In view of His approaching passion He says again (Joh 14:30), “The prince of the world cometh: and he hath nothing in me.” Once again in connection with the promised advent of the Spirit, Jesus asserted (Joh 16:11) that the Spirit would convict the world of judgment, “because the prince of this world hath been judged.” In Hebrews (Heb 2:14, Heb 2:15) it is said that Christ took upon Himself human nature in order “that through death he might bring to nought him that had the power of death, that is, the Devil.” In 1Jo 3:8 it is said, “To this end was the Son of God manifested, that he might destroy the works of the Devil.” In Rev 12:9 it is asserted, in connection with Christ's ascension, that Satan was cast down to the earth and his angels with him. According to the passage immediately following (Rev 12:10-12), this casting down was not complete or final in the sense of extinguishing his activities altogether, but it involves the potential and certain triumph of God and His saints and the equally certain defeat of Satan. In 1Jo 2:13 the young men are addressed as those who “have overcome the evil one.” In Rev 20:1-15 the field of the future is covered in the assertion that Satan is “bound a thousand years”; then loosed “for a little time,” and then finally “cast into the lake of fire.”
A comparison of these passages will convince the careful student that while we cannot construct a definite chronological program for the career of Satan, we are clear in the chief points. He is limited, judged, condemned, imprisoned, reserved for judgment from the beginning. The outcome is certain though the process may be tedious and slow. The victory of Christ is the defeat of Satan; first, for Himself as Leader and Saviour of men (Joh 14:30); then, for believers (Luk 22:31; Act 26:18; Rom 16:20; Jam 4:7; 1Jo 2:13; 1Jo 5:4, 1Jo 5:18); and, finally, for the whole world (Rev 20:10). The work of Christ has already destroyed the empire of Satan.
Just as well, eh? :D
~ Viper ~
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I'll keep praying for you anyway. It seems illogical to me to answer what you thought was a call from God by going to a medium (whom God said not to go to) instead of reading what He has to say. To each his own.
ZRY
Maybe God made such statements as a way to keep you away from the Truth? :wink: (by the way I am talking from the book lol)
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I made a pact with myself that I would discover what I can about the beyond through my own personal experiences, meditations etc. then I had that calling, I then got a friend of mine to do me a reading and it wasn't a calling. More the spirit world trying to get me learn in a different way (I am too forward).........
........You could at least be serious about it. For all you know, you've all been conned into worshipping the wrong God.. :wink:
:shock: I'll take my chances on Judgement Day, Shaun. Thanks for the warning, though. :D
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You may also want to check out Renee Descartes arguments for God.
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Does anyone know how to properly pronounce his last name. In school we pronounced it DeCarts, but some of my more educated friends pronounce it Des-Cart-es. A lil help!
ZRY
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Say it like "DAY-cart" and you are saying it correctly.
(Edited to add - by coincidence, there was a particularly interesting programme on BBC2 last night here in the UK about the rivalry between Descartes + Roman church vs Isaac Newton + Anglican Church. Fascinating stuff, pivoting on the nature of Light. As a scientist, you'd have been rivetted :D )
:D
~ Viper ~
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I'm sure there's one out there that says the Queen of the Pumpkins created the world and we're all having a party on October 31st. :D
WAHOO!!!!! PART-AY!!!!
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I've had my invite already. It said "Bring A Bottle".
I'm taking 2 though.
Hopefully, I'll be able to fill them when I get there :wink:
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Haha... A keg is more my style being Aussie an all. Which reminds me, I would like to congratulate one Aussie who broke the World Record, I think for drinking the most cans of Beer on a 24 hour plane flight, he managed to drink 54 cans on the plane.
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Have you been watching the Test, Shadow?
~ Viper ~
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Also it baffles me how The Bible teachers God created the world and man came straight after, did they forget about the billions of years man was not here and it was the dinosaurs?
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Not that old chestnut...
CLICK THIS LINK (http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml)
AND THIS ONE (http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml)
And, Oh Wise One, take note of the quote on the first link....
"Some people believe that the Bible is not a scientifically accurate book, and that it is only a “spiritual book,” that forgot about dinosaurs or described them incorrectly. This is not the case. Nobody has ever proven that the Bible contains any inaccurately recorded information. (If you think someone has such evidence, contact us and show us the evidence. We will post that evidence with our reply in our FAQ section for the world to see—literally.) You do not have to believe the Bible just because someone says you are supposed to. That is blind faith, and blind faith is something you do not need with Christianity."
You could become famous! :D
~ Viper ~
Edited to make the links a bit bigger for dumb-asses to spot
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And, Oh Wise One
Because I disagree with your faith there's no need to take the piss. And that doesn't answer my question, The Bible says Adam and Eve were created after the world (if I'm right) and mankind went from there, so the billions of years of Dinosaurs and no man is all crap is it? I think not.
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Because I disagree with your faith there's no need to take the piss.
Tsk tsk, Shaun. Isn't THAT exactly what YOU are doing with these otherwise inane posts of yours?? Taking the proverbial in a sly dig at myself and other Christians??
Hey, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, young man! :D
And that doesn't answer my question, The Bible says Adam and Eve were created after the world (if I'm right) and mankind went from there, so the billions of years of Dinosaurs and no man is all crap is it? I think not.
Did you click the links provided above?? Do you really, finally, have the irrefutable proof to question the authenticity of the Holy Bible??? :shock:
As it says, they're waiting for you to provide it....
:P
~ Viper ~
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Because I disagree with your faith there's no need to take the piss.
Tsk tsk, Shaun. Isn't THAT exactly what YOU are doing with these otherwise inane posts of yours?? Taking the proverbial in a sly dig at myself and other Christians??
Hey, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen, young man! :D
And that doesn't answer my question, The Bible says Adam and Eve were created after the world (if I'm right) and mankind went from there, so the billions of years of Dinosaurs and no man is all crap is it? I think not.
Did you click the links provided above?? Do you really, finally, have the irrefutable proof to question the authenticity of the Holy Bible??? :shock:
As it says, they're waiting for you to provide it....
:P
~ Viper ~
Christianity is preaching The Bible, you should be providing the proof, not an outsider.
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Shaun
*knocks loudly on table*
Hello? Anybody in there??
Read my lips... The Bible IS our statement of fact. IF YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN PROVE THAT IT CONTAINS ANY INACCURATELY RECORDED INFORMATION then, Hey! You go, kiddo!! Fame and fortune await you!!
Click the links I provided if you want more evidence, I'm not going to type it!
~ Viper ~
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I have already flawed it with the Dinosaurs.
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Are you stupid, or just too plain lazy to click the links??? :shock:
I am not going to spam this thread with several pages of detailed information when anyone with a modicum of sense would click the links provided and simply read what it says.
And, yeah, right, you just did that by saying "dinosaurs"... Tell you what, email that statement to the address provided in the first link. I can see you now, receiving the Nobel Prize For Dumb-Ass Wisecracks.... :roll:
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Are you stupid, or just too plain lazy to click the links??? :shock:
I am not going to spam this thread with several pages of detailed information when anyone with a modicum of sense would click the links provided and simply read what it says.
And, yeah, right, you just did that by saying "dinosaurs"... Tell you what, email that statement to the address provided in the first link. I can see you now, receiving the Nobel Prize For Dumb-Ass Wisecracks.... :roll:
I have scanned and it doesn't answer my question.
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*exhales*
*eyes glaze over*
*shakes head*
The evidence is there, if you can't accept it, that's fine. You seem to think that you are suddenly smarter than the myriad scientists who came before you. Did you know that far more learned people than you have argued in court in the US to prove what you are claiming, in order that Evolution be taught in all US schools.
They failed, too. :D
~ Viper ~
I shan't respond any further, Shaun. You are just trying to cause a reaction. It won't work. Go away and harass someone who gives a damn about your petty tantrums :wink:
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Believe me I am not trying to get any kind of attention.
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Have they actually proved evolution wrong, then?
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As far as I know, it has neither been proven right nor has it been proven wrong per se. Details and fact are missing from both sides of the debate.
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Do I trust the reason of a flawed mind or the senses in a deceptive world?
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Have they actually proved evolution wrong, then?
Even Charles Darwin didn't fully believe Evolution..! And no scientific, provable evidence supporting the theory of evolution has emerged since Charles Darwin popularized it in 1859.
"Summarized briefly, Charles Darwin studied wildlife while on a voyage and he noticed the variation in the appearance of the individual animals. He guessed that this variation, given enough time, would allow these animals to change to the point that they looked different. This was not a surprising discovery, by the way. Anyone can examine different varieties of roses or cats to see this. This process of changing an organism’s appearance through a series of small changes is correctly called “microevolution” (with an “i”) and is not what we are referring to when we write “the theory of evolution” on this page. After a series of microevolutionary changes, a frog may be larger or changed in color, but it is still a frog—not a fish or a lizard."
(Not my words - an extract from this site- )
CLICK HERE! (http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/creation.shtml)
~ Viper ~
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Shaun,
The bible discusses who and what was created and in what order and it doesn't go against what science says. Read the bible for the exact details. Genesis for creation and Job for several descriptions of dinos.
Everyone else interested,
Darwinian Evolutions has been debunked by science. The fossil record doesn't support it. They people who are still trying to make a go of it have adopted the position of "punctuated equilibium" which in my opinion is logically weak. I can expound on this topic somewhere else if you like. I have taken three classes dealing in part or in whole on this topic at Kent State. The idea of micro-evolution can be discussed too.
ZRY
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Zak
There's a pretty good book I have in my library on this aspect of Christianity, "Reason & Faith" (Roger Forster & V. Paul Marston, Monarch Publications, 1989 ISBN 1-85424-054-4). Unfortunately, it's one of the few I haven't yet got around to scanning or I would offer to email you a copy. Its subtitle is "Do modern science and Christian faith really conflict?" Great read if you spot it anywhere.
~ Viper ~