Author Topic: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman  (Read 2972 times)

jordyn

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Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« on: August 23, 2006, 01:33:14 pm »
i've started to read this book today, curious about it when i was looking over the religious section of our library, i've made it throught he first three chapters(they're really short)and am rather, impressed by some of the differences.  As i get more into it, i'll point out some off the, questions i've noticed...but to start off with, who decided what books go into the new testament, and which ones are not included, especially since the last page of the bible states.

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


 Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.


 Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


 Rev 22:21  The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you all. Amen.

if the bible was not all written in any consecutive order, there were indeed books not added, left out or undiscovered until more recent times, and a book like mathew can be so varied between two different translations, how would those who put the book together, be free from this...final statement.

(i always read the last page of any book i'm reading.)  ;)


"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

Zak Roy Yoballa

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2006, 04:59:55 am »
I believe that John was saying that no one should add to the book of Revelations specifically but I'm not 100% sure.   I also think that statement is also in a differnt book of the Bible too.  Since you are starting to get into things  here is a handy website for looking up Scripture

http://www.biblegateway.com/


ZRY
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jordyn

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2006, 05:45:25 am »
I believe that John was saying that no one should add to the book of Revelations specifically but I'm not 100% sure.   I also think that statement is also in a differnt book of the Bible too.  Since you are starting to get into things  here is a handy website for looking up Scripture

http://www.biblegateway.com/


ZRY

i get a page can't be displayed.  :(

more of satan's nefarious plotting against me?   ;)
"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

Zak Roy Yoballa

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2006, 05:21:48 pm »
Naw, just my lousy computer skills!!!!!!!!!   

www.biblegateway.com
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jordyn

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2006, 05:31:48 pm »
Naw, just my lousy computer skills!!!!!!!!!   

www.biblegateway.com

that, sort of worked, but you have an ftp, i url'd it for you in the quote.  ;)

...thank you, it looks nice, i'll definitly look into it. :-D
"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

jordyn

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2006, 01:40:56 am »
i made it to the coptic gospel of thomas, and the most striking statement i came across was...

"14: Jesus said to them.  "If you fast, you will give rise to sin for yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give alms you will do harm to your spirits.  When you go into any lands and walk about in the districts.  If they receive you, eat what they set before you, and heal the sick amont them.  For what goes in your mouth will not defile you, but that which issues from your mouth, it is that which will defile you.(pg. 21)"

the question is, if there are other gospels out there, that seem to contradict the, established standards of the christian faith, how does it all tie together, if at all?

Do these, "lost scriptures" not count?

"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

jordyn

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2006, 01:55:37 am »
what exactly is the Holy Ghost, the Father and Son are easy to understand...and if i apply the maiden, mother, crone aspect...it may work, but that just doesn't seem right?

44 Jesus said. "Whoever blashpemes against the Father will be forgiven, and whoever blasphemes against the Son will be forgiven, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven either on earth or in heaven."

that sort of, stumps me, and leaves me wanting to cross myself.  ;)
"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2006, 02:55:56 am »
The Holy Spirit, or Ruah Hakodesh, is God's presence in the hearts of each believer. The verse in Matthew does not say that God cannot forgive it; it says that God will not forgive it. It is fairly emphatic: this sin and only this sin will not be forgiven. This is because the Holy Spirit brings us Christ and shapes our lives into His. If you were to choose to oppose the Holy Spirit, or even urge others to oppose it, you would be working against God's work on earth, against the reign of God as it is unfolding right now, and against the Holy Spirit's bringing Christ into you. That's worse than just denying that God is at work among people (mere disbelief); since the Holy Spirit could only enter your life by way of force, and the Spirit doesn't work that way, that means the faith would not be created in you, and the saving grace that goes with it could not come in.

Acting and speaking against the Holy Spirit is like the prodigal son deciding that he loves being a swine and thus he doesn't go home. If he does not go home, his father never rushes to greet him, he never gets to taste the fatted calf, and he never gets to have a restart in life with someone who loves him. Though it is entirely available, forgiveness would never come, because that which makes forgiveness come about does not take place. In that same way, the one sin of evil against the Holy Spirit remains unforgiven.

Devious Viper
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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2006, 03:03:19 am »
Do these, "lost scriptures" not count?

No, many of them do not, as they are not really "lost", but "false" Scripture and Gospel. Many of the gnostic sects latched on to the Apostolic Church and its writings, also the figures therein, including Yeshua/Jesus and created their own stories. Similarly, from the time of the OT there are many documents that were kabbalistic in nature, not of God at all.

A great example of false gospels is the Gospel of Judas. The Gospel of Thomas is also extremely suspect...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2006, 03:19:21 am by Devious Viper »

Devious Viper
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Re: Lost Scriptures by Bart D Ehrman
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2006, 03:12:29 am »
From an earlier post about "lost" gospels...

None of [the contents are] at all surprising - not because [they] do not contradict everything we know ... from the New Testament (obviously, they do), but because they agree with everything we already know about the Gnostic heresies.  The Gnostics (from gnosis, the Greek word for knowledge) promised to give their followers inside information: secret spiritual knowledge that was only disclosed to someone who was initiated into the rites of their religion. The Gnostics also denigrated the human body, believing that the spirit was always pure, while the flesh was inherently sinful.

Gnostic spirituality is the antithesis of Christianity, which presents the gospel of Jesus Christ as a fact of history that is accessible to anyone who will take the trouble to read what the Bible says. Biblical Christianity also refuses to dishonour the bodies that God has made in his image. Dating from c. A.D.350 the Gnostics writings are heavily influenced by the Hellenistic understanding that the material world is evil and the spirit is good. Gnostics believed that the ultimate supreme God did not create the world, but rather a lesser god, a 'demiurge,' created the world poorly and imperfectly. The result was a material world filled with decay, weakness, and death. But Gnostics believed that human beings, though locked in this material body, have a spark of the higher spiritual reality within. This spark, if fanned into a flame, can liberate us and help us evolve back into spiritual perfection. This happens through a process of self-discovery, in which you discover your divine identity, you separate from the world by 'stripping off ' the consciousness of the physical body, and you finally experience the kingdom of light, peace, and life.

Gnostics were not Christians, they simply use the purported conversations of Jesus with his disciples as little more than an artificial framework for imparting Gnostic doctrine. Previously, the most well known of these Gnostic-Jesus texts included "The Gospel of Thomas," the "Apocryphon of James,""The Gospel of Phillip" and "The Gospel of Truth."