Monstrous
Ghosts, Poltergeists & Apparitions => Ghostly Encounters => Topic started by: onishadowolf on August 28, 2009, 06:30:45 PM
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Would it be possible for a spirit with enough willpower and energy, to manifest/incarnate itself phsyically into the corpeal world? Indefinitely?
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Well technically, he would be passing between the 2 realms and that would seem perfectly possible. Whether the spirit would take human form is another matter entirely.
Maybe another interesting question would be; when we see a ghost are we percieving a being outside of the corporeal world, or is this the physical body of a spirit who has passed into the corporeal realm?
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To be honest Ryobi, what would be the difference. Or do you mean is it a ghost as we assume it to be or is it a creature of the non-corporeal world that never was a person? As for bringing itself to the corporeal world oni, you mean making itself corporeal again? Like a solid ghost? As far as I understand it takes a lot of energy for a ghost just to be seen or heard so manifesting itself as a solid being could be possibe but I doubt indefinitely.
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To be honest Ryobi, what would be the difference. Or do you mean is it a ghost as we assume it to be or is it a creature of the non-corporeal world that never was a person? As for bringing itself to the corporeal world oni, you mean making itself corporeal again? Like a solid ghost? As far as I understand it takes a lot of energy for a ghost just to be seen or heard so manifesting itself as a solid being could be possibe but I doubt indefinitely.
Well if all ghosts are simply spirits who passed into the corporeal world, then 'the sight' would be obsolete. If mediums can see ghosts as the people they were instead of seeing into the non-corporeal realm, then that would drastically change the limitations of that gift.
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Yes, the making itself solid. I think it can be done, and has been done by a handful. But can it be considered human still?
That is a very interesting theory Ryobi.
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Right. I understand. I think as a spirit (deceased human), if you have the ability to change your non-corporeal form, which most asume you can, you may, subconciously, take on a familiar form out of habit. If you are used to having two arms and two legs and such you may just be in that form. The reason some ghosts look all freaky and stuff could be the stress and confussion of how they died has made them take that form. Like some form of post-mortem stress maybe. Its a very fascinating thought. As for the whole becoming solid thing, I think it would be possible for a short time and some ghosts have probably done it. Like the old hitchiking ghost story of urban mythology. They physicaly open the car door and in some versions give a thank-you kiss to the good samaritan. So yeah, physical manifestation would be possible. As for being considered human..... No. I dont think so. It still has the ability to return to the incorporeal state it was in and a butt load of other supernatural abilities.... and oh yeah, they are dead. Probably dont leave DNA behind when touching, if cut with a knife could choose for the wound to heal or for the weapon to pass through. Thats not human. The body wouldnt be made of real flesh and bone but energy that is being held in that form by sheer force of will so it would not age unless the spirit decides to make it and would be effectively "unimmortal". I choose this word as it cannot be killed by man, disease or age but could "die" (well, go to the spirit world anyway) if it decided to. And what is already dead cannot truely live, so cannot truely die, so cannot be truelly immortal. Man Ive just raised more questions than answers................ Bloody hell.
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Let's say for instance, it takes a form that constantly draws energy to stay solid. Would that break any natural laws?
The old hitch hiker stories were my inspiration for this topic.
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The idea of ghosts breaks all natural laws. What is dead should be gone. Thats nature. I dont think it would break any spiritual laws or ideas though. It is thought that ghosts draw there energy from the living things around them. So hypothetically the spirit could either draw energy from a large group of close living things or if strong enough could possibly draw it from millions of people from a distance but that would be one hell of a powerful spirit. Like a full on reality altering, most probably driven insane by its own power, uber spirit.
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Ok, not just people, other sources too.
Maybe it goes insane, maybe it doesn't. So would it be safe to assume this has been accompished already? Angels, and other spirits, human or not.
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I'm a little confused by one statement that Ryobi made... "If mediums can see ghosts as the people they were instead of seeing into the non-corporeal realm, then that would drastically change the limitations of that gift." Now, I don't know that anyone would call me a medium, but I can see ghosts, or spirits, whatever you want to call them. And I see them as they were before death.. not as they are after. They look perfect and whole to me... other than being slightly see-thru. Am I missing the point here??
As for making themselves totally solid... I think it's possible, but I can't fathom exactly how. I assume that they would draw energy from the world around them to accomplish this, but I also think it may depend on the person. Wouldn't they have to have some sort of gift or sight that makes them susceptible to this?
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Yeah, I didn't quite follow that one ethier.
Not really any special gifts, just knowledge and acceptence of thier state. And a badass willpower.
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No, I didn't really mean special gifts. Just an openness, a willingness to see. Or possibly just someone who is extremely susceptible to spirit tricks and/or activity.
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Wait, the medium or spirit? Because I speaking of the spirit. Which you just said the same I said, but worded differently.
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I'm referring to the person that sees the spirit. As in your example of the hitch-hiker stories. The person that sees and picks up the spirit would have to be one of the things I mentioned.
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Of course.
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But my whole reason for posting was the confusion over Ryobi's comment. lol. If she could clear that up for me, that'd be great. :-D
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Yeah that would be good.
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Wait, what am I clearing up, beyond confused here :-o
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To be honest Ryobi, what would be the difference. Or do you mean is it a ghost as we assume it to be or is it a creature of the non-corporeal world that never was a person? As for bringing itself to the corporeal world oni, you mean making itself corporeal again? Like a solid ghost? As far as I understand it takes a lot of energy for a ghost just to be seen or heard so manifesting itself as a solid being could be possibe but I doubt indefinitely.
Well if all ghosts are simply spirits who passed into the corporeal world, then 'the sight' would be obsolete. If mediums can see ghosts as the people they were instead of seeing into the non-corporeal realm, then that would drastically change the limitations of that gift.
That :-P
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To be honest Ryobi, what would be the difference. Or do you mean is it a ghost as we assume it to be or is it a creature of the non-corporeal world that never was a person? As for bringing itself to the corporeal world oni, you mean making itself corporeal again? Like a solid ghost? As far as I understand it takes a lot of energy for a ghost just to be seen or heard so manifesting itself as a solid being could be possibe but I doubt indefinitely.
Well if all ghosts are simply spirits who passed into the corporeal world, then 'the sight' would be obsolete. If mediums can see ghosts as the people they were instead of seeing into the non-corporeal realm, then that would drastically change the limitations of that gift.
That :-P
It would mean that a 'medium' with this ability would instead be identifying a persons life-force and percieving their past form instead of percieving a spirit in the other realm. It would mean that a person who can see ghosts doesn't necessarily have a stronger contact with the other realm but with energy manipulation.
In other words, some people can see the future, these kinds of mediums can see the past when triggered by a specific energy.
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I like that Ryobi.
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Hmm... that actually helps me a LOT.
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Glad to know it helps, took me a while to realise what I was talking about as well.
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Now what?
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Back to trying to figure out how they draw the energy to manifest themselves like that?
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Oh yeah, that's what. Let's see, how about like a psychic vampire.?.
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But if it's one of the hitch-hiker stories, it's most likely out in the middle of BFE, so what are they drawing from?? Are spirits really powerful enough to draw from distances? And, if so, wouldn't someone with sight notice and do something about it?
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What if it's the environment, or other unknown source?
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Well, excess energy is usually found around generally manic people, cities (large crowds etc) or much older places that bear traces of energy that has been left behind in a sense.
One question, why is it that water is able to transmit electric energy however it is usually seen as a cleansing force when faced with a buil up of negative spiritual energy?
Otherwise, places that get a lot of rain and often or established cities built on the water would probably have the highest number of ghost sightings... logically.
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Hmm, good question. Seems a little paradoxical.
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Its in the poetry, not in the science. Its what the water represents that is important when dealing with otherworldly creatures. Water is pure and cleansing. When being used to cast out a melevolant spirit (or being) its the metaphore thats the important thing.
Now when it comes to the hitchiker ghost it physicaly manifests itself to a solid creature for no more than a few hours and to very few people. (Think about it, how many people do you know thats seen a ghost? Lots, Now how many have had a physical experience like the hitch hiker ghost? None or few) A natural susceptability to spirits must be important for a standard, non-uber powered ghost to be physical for you. The only energy available is yours and the car engine and battery.
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Its in the poetry, not in the science. Its what the water represents that is important when dealing with otherworldly creatures. Water is pure and cleansing. When being used to cast out a melevolant spirit (or being) its the metaphore thats the important thing.
Thanks for the answer Angelus, I guess this means that places near water or with consistent rainfall are less likely to harbor malevolent spirits? Or would this affect spirits in general? If there aren't as many malevolent spirits, would more benefic astral bodies be drawn to the place as sanctuary?
Personally, I've always found rain relieving compared to cleansing, then again I'm not a supernatural being :wink:
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Why is it that water is a problem for spirits? It's an energy in itself with the way it flows, so why would this be a bad thing for them??
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Not all spirits. Just the "unclean" ones. The water is just part of a larger ritual. And its generaly running water. Not still. Thats why you can still get lake spirits and not many river spirits.
Kadesh. Read my last post.
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I read that post, just didn't get it the first time. So, that's why they use "Holy Water" in exorcisms? Lakes still have currents and tide, so is it just that it's slower moving?
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Modern science. It is pretty much just cause its slower moving. Back in the old days they didnt take currents and tides into consideration. Most people probably didnt even know what caused them. Its not flowing in the sense of a river or such. The rules on otherworldly creatures have no scientific explanation whatsoever. They are all metaphores, symbolism and "this works because the priest/rabbi/minister/witchdoctor said so". Holy water is just the idea of the physical embodyment of cleanliness and the one thing on earth that all living things need mixed with a sacred blessing making it super powerful.
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But Holy Water can only be as powerful as the pedophile that blessed it. :wink:
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Now now. Not all priests are paedos. Just so happens most paedos are priests. Hey.... wait..... Im catholic you git! lol.
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Catholic or not... honest is honest. I'm just saying that things can be "blessed" all they want... it's all about the 'power' of the blesser. I, personally, believe that things that occur naturally are the most powerful.
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I see where you are coming from, but I dont knock someones belief in there "magic water". I think its all in the faith of the user.
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Faith plays a big part, too. But how many people do you know have a strong enough faith to overcome the corruption inherent in 90% of religions today? My grandmother is the only person I can think of. She reminds me of a saying I've heard; "Faith to move mountains."
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Good point. I have faith. But I dont trust its got me. lol.
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See?? It's more than just one thing that makes "holy water" and other such things work.
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There are many reasons it may work. All depends on your possible belief. Theres no way to prove the paranormal, if there was it would just be called the normal. lol.
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You don't have to prove the paranormal to me. It's already proven itself.
But still....... can spirits actually draw energy from water? I know it's a theory that's out there... but is it fact? Is there actually any way to know for certain?
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I dont think so. They can "live" in the still waters of lakes and such the same as they can in a house or whatever but there energy will come from wherever people believe spirit energy comes from.
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So, they can inhabit an area with still water or slowly moving water, but are less likely to inhabit areas with rivers and streams? Do you ever watch Ghost Hunters? Do you think them serious investigators or just putting on a show?
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I very rarely watch ghost hunters. Like most of these ghost hunting shows they are showmen first and investigators second.
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Well, this particular episode has relevance to what we're discussing. They were at an old mill... water wheel and all... (take this or leave it, believe it or not) They communicated with the ghost of a 9 year old boy that was killed while working at the mill. By asking him questions, they determined gender, age, where he was born/lived, where he died, if there were others at that location, and if he was lonely. Running water didn't seem to deter him in the least. So... is it possible that the little boy was using the water's energy to 'speak' to them? Or just the energy created by them being there with their equipment? But don't ghosts need a tad bit of energy just to remain ghosts??
And your theory about only malevolent spirits being unable to inhabit areas with running water, seems sound.
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I haven't seen that one. Energy is in everything, you spend a little energy converting it. But you can get it still, running water, we use it along with turbines to make electricity. So, why not, it has potential energy.
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I dont see why not. If the spirit doesnt fear the purity represented by the water so it doesnt fear the water itself then it could certainly draw energy from it.
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I would like to re-post a question I asked a bit ago.... Don't ghosts need at least a tad bit of energy from something just to be able to remain here as ghosts?? At least for an intelligent haunt, anyway.
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They are energy, so yes.
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That's what I thought. I think that people supply enough energy for hauntings just because we're so fascinated with it all.
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Energy cannot be created or destroyed. Only changed. So as long as the ghost isnt doing anything it can hover around indefinetely. It would need to draw energy for more complex tasks. Such as poltergeist activity and such. Thats the kind of thing I think it would need to take energy from electrical equipment, people and other things.
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So... if a ghost is say, in the 'woods'... a park... there are people there during the day that it could draw it's energy from. Possibly even the animals as well. Could that be why I see him? Or is it just a gift on my part? (No one else sees him, and I've had people with me that saw something I didn't, but they couldn't see him.)
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Either. Either it want only these particular people to see it but not the other or they have a "gift" as you called it or (this is the main one) they just so happened to be facing the right way, standing in he right spot, with there eyes squinted just the right way, with there body in the right condition, in the right frame of mind. The last one is the main one because it is believed by some that you are most likely to see a ghost when you are in this state. Like when you just woken up (which is when most people see ghosts) as this is thought to be when you are inbetween the two worlds. The living world and the other one. The world of dreams an spirits.
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But this ghost is ... different. Long story, but I've seen him more than once and felt him for literally years. He tends to find me whenever I'm in the park...
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Could be a hundred reasons. Maybe the ghost likes you. Maybe you are all psychic. Maybe you have a gift. Maybe you and the spirit have a connection. I dont mean you know it but it could be an emotional or psychic connection.
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Oh we have a connection alright...... ahem. Sorry. Almost started to rant there.. :roll:
Just trying to figure out 'why me'? It might make sense if I just knew that.
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Maybe it's because, you look out for him now, you react to him and as a result you sustain an easy emotionally accessible connection with him?
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There's no denying that. What I want to know is why me the first time?? Why couldn't I see what was following me that night, but I could clearly see him?? Why me??
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Well, if he is reaching you through an emotional connection then maybe the reason you reached out to each other to begin with, is because your emotional state was acting like a beacon at the time?
All theory of course, Angelus seems more well versed on this subject. He may be able to shed more light on it.
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Actually Ryobi your theories are rather sound.
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He's right, they are. I've been thinking quite a lot about things because of them..
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When we talk of ghosts haunting our homes while in those same homes are we giving them the power to haunt us?
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I'd say that simply believing in them is enough. They can draw energy from so many things in a home.
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most malevolent spirits ive encountered feed off of your own fear of them. when you do encounter them breathe deeply, calm your body and mind, clear it of any negative thoughts, focus on trying to force it out with your mind, if it makes you feel better hold an item of importance to you, or a symbol of your faith. just remember its not the item that protects you its the faith behind it.
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just remember its not the item that protects you its the faith behind it.
Very intelligent statement, Drake. Too many people depend on the item alone, and that never works.
The one truly malevolent spirit I've come in contact with originally fed off my fear, but now what? I'm not afraid of him anymore, so is it my anger and hatred of what he did that he feeds off? :?
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does he attack you or simply follow you?
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*<:) He wants to attack me. He tries. So, since he can't, he follows me.
Sorry.. the laugh was because it made me think of how he tries to attack me. *<:) (He tries to put things into my head so I'll commit suicide.)
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*<:) He wants to attack me. He tries. So, since he can't, he follows me.
Sorry.. the laugh was because it made me think of how he tries to attack me. *<:) (He tries to put things into my head so I'll commit suicide.)
Interesting.
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I actually posted about this a long time ago... I've learned more since then, but I'll try to find that post and re-direct this part of the convo there. :wink:
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Sounds good.
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Ok.. I found the link. I'll try to bring that thread up to date with things, so it'll take me a minute because I'm taking a supper break first! :-P
http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php/topic,4736.0.html
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*<:) He wants to attack me. He tries. So, since he can't, he follows me.
Sorry.. the laugh was because it made me think of how he tries to attack me. *<:) (He tries to put things into my head so I'll commit suicide.)
Interesting.
my twin sister hears 3 voices, 2 do nothing one is extremely violent, telling her to hurt others, or herself. docs call it psychosis, i know better, ive met them, and they arent nice., never heard em speak tho, just felt them around.
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Sounds a bit like The Exorcism of Emily Rose... and, no, I'm not making fun. I'm dead serious. That was based on a true story.
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im aware, if i thought youd made fun of my sis, you wouldve known it the very second you posted haha
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A lady... well, THE lady, I may be. But you know me better than that, Drakie. :wink:
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Of course i do lovie, thats why i let the whole farking farm animals thing go. everytime people find out where im from people say that to me, or ask if i fark my cousins.
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Are your cousins the farm animals? *<:)
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no, im a virgin deshie, you remember? ive told you before?
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But that doesn't mean the farm animals are.... :roll: Jk... but... :focus:
What other possibilities could there be for hauntings?
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A tula, maybe?
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whats a tula?
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Sorry Tupula. A construct of the mind given power and consciousness.
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More details please...
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-british accent- I second the motion set forth by the blue glowy lady.
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*<:) *<:) *<:) *<:)
Just so this isn't an empty post......................... you sheep lover. :-P
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if only you were as nice to look at as a sheep lol
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Tulpa?
A tulpa, from what I remember, is a being created from your mind. It gains it's own free will over time as you make it up. Eventually, it's said to become a totally separate being.
Thoughtform may be understood as a 'psychospiritual' complex of mind, energy or consciousness manifested either consciously or unconsciously, by a sentient being or in concert.
This is from Wikipedia, but it has a source connected to it, so I think its safe to consider it valid. (Thoughtform is just the English interpretation of the word Tulpa.)
What oni said sums it up nice I think. If you've ever heard of constructs when it comes to psionics (basically a programmed thought that acts on its own, following your command (programming)) A tulpa is the same thing, except it separates itself from the user and becomes conscious over time.
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Hold on I think I spelled it wrong twice. Looking it up.
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Thanks Kube. I was looking it up as we speak.
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Tulpa?
A tulpa, from what I remember, is a being created from your mind. It gains it's own free will over time as you make it up. Eventually, it's said to become a totally separate being.
Thoughtform may be understood as a 'psychospiritual' complex of mind, energy or consciousness manifested either consciously or unconsciously, by a sentient being or in concert.
This is from Wikipedia, but it has a source connected to it, so I think its safe to consider it valid. (Thoughtform is just the English interpretation of the word Tulpa.)
What oni said sums it up nice I think. If you've ever heard of constructs when it comes to psionics (basically a programmed thought that acts on its own, following your command (programming)) A tulpa is the same thing, except it separates itself from the user and becomes conscious over time.
That sounds a bit.... what's that movie...... Matrix.
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What do you mean, Desh?
There's no such thing in the Matrix... A tulpa's got nothing to do with virtual reality... Or maybe I'm missing your point.
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I mean it sounds a bit out there... just like the stuff in Matrix. *<:)
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I mean it sounds a bit out there... just like the stuff in Matrix. *<:)
Ah, well it all depends if you believe in that kind of stuff or not. Personal experience has made me unable to deny it :-P
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I believe in quite a lot... but that one...... I just don't know. It seems a bit of a stretch...
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The concept came from India. It's an old one too.
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the mind is an amazing thing deshie, i doubt its that much of a stretch
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Seems like quite a stretch to me... Which is surprising considering everything else I'm open to..
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the mind is an amazing thing deshie, i doubt its that much of a stretch
Yes, there's so much we have yet to discover about the mind that I wouldn't be surprised if it held many more secrets.
Kadesh: If you go along the lines of construct programming, here's a simple rule most believe to be true: whatever your mind can do, so can your construct. So if you can think, it would seem natural to be able to program a construct to think on its own too, since thinking is the most basic thing our mind does. But if it's the whole concept of constructs and programming that's bugging you, then there's not much proof anyone can offer.
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I don't want proof for the world, only for myself.
I just don't know about this one... my mind creating another, separate entity... that can think and act of its own free will? Just not sure....
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That is out there. What's strange is that I have been the main person who has experienced phenomena in my mother's house. My mother tells herself that ghosts aren't real and doesn't see anything.My sister experiences very little and I see,hear,and feel so much in that damn house,that whatever haunts it practically forced me to move out.
Still,I don't see how I could create such a thing/things. It seems infeasible
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That is out there. What's strange is that I have been the main person who has experienced phenomena in my mother's house. My mother tells herself that ghosts aren't real and doesn't see anything.My sister experiences very little and I see,hear,and feel so much in that damn house,that whatever haunts it practically forced me to move out.
Still,I don't see how I could create such a thing/things. It seems infeasible
Training. Lots of it most likely. I've only heard of someone successfully creating a Tulpa once, so it's probably very difficult to consciously make one. You'd usually start out with more simple ones that aren't conscious and only have basic commands...
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:-o :-o Retard Tulpas?? That would be badass!! *<:)
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I dont know if you know about the Poltergeist case in Germany, i think the girl name was Anne Marie, or something like that. Strange things happened on her working place but only when she was there. After all the tests and everything, they (scientist) came to a conclusion that she herself is causing all the turmoil. She was 19 at the time, which for girls means they are peaking with energy and both, kundalini is vibrating higher than normal, so it wouldnt be a surprise if you do it not knowing.
Yup, found it on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poltergeist)
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Also simply called Geisting so as not to be confused with the poltergeist type of spirit. (Which is probably just unconfirmed cases of geisting anyway)
Most people confuse it with ghosts because they can't find an explanation for the moving objects and all, but really, it's the person's subconscious doing it. It's actually more common than you'd think; we're all capable of doing those things, so people who have an affinity for them at birth or also just random people sometimes tend to cause such things without wanting to. Some cases, like this one, are more documented than others.
:-o :-o Retard Tulpas?? That would be badass!! *<:)
Now I MUST try to make one!!! *<:)
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Hmm... have you ever thought that you already are? I was reading your post in Mayday.... could that be what it is?
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Hmm... have you ever thought that you already are? I was reading your post in Mayday.... could that be what it is?
I thought about it. I'm not sure, really... Should add it to the other thread.
I don't think a construct would latch on to you, though. Constructs are usually invisible and when they are visible, from what I heard they glow (called flaring), not made of pure darkness. I will ask other psions who have experience in making constructs, though.
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Definitely ask around. Lord knows I'm not authority on something I'm not sure I believe in. *<:)
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Definitely ask around. Lord knows I'm not authority on something I'm not sure I believe in. *<:)
Actually in psionics no one knows what we're talking about, as we don't even know what it is we're dealing with... We have no real idea what the "psi" energy really is other than... an energy. :-P So one way or another, any theory can be the right one.
Luckily enough, I've been talking about Tulpas on a psionics-oriented community for the past few days, so I can maybe get a bit of help from there...
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Good luck with it!
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I hope that's not it though... Wouldn't want a retard Tulpa on my back XD
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The name "Tulpa" itself makes me think of some special-ed kid. *<:)
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idk bout that Deshie, but it reminds me of a creature similar to a llama.
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:-o :-o You just said the magic word!! If you would have said it three times, I'd be in a giggle fit right now! *<:)