Monstrous

Witches Brew => The Book of Shadows => Topic started by: SKGS on June 12, 2010, 08:29:26 PM

Title: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on June 12, 2010, 08:29:26 PM
I am doing some research on the subject matter.
Would like to hear what everybody thinks or knows about this.

What I have read so far is that you should not get involved in it.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: rave phillaphia on June 13, 2010, 07:05:09 AM
The reason I believe you shouldn't get involved in it is because it is very complex. You have to always think abstractly and it is very powerful stuff, so there is no room for error.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on June 13, 2010, 01:33:58 PM
Go for it. Try it. The only things i have ever learnt of any real worth came from doing things and f##king up in every shade imaginable.
Does it grab you and really hook your attention is the question?
What we think of it is nearly irrelevant compared to this.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on June 24, 2010, 10:20:24 PM
Go for it. Try it. The only things i have ever learnt of any real worth came from doing things and f##king up in every shade imaginable.
Does it grab you and really hook your attention is the question?
What we think of it is nearly irrelevant compared to this.

To answer your question: It started a while back with "Angels/demons, where do they come from, who wrote about them, when, where?  A lot of questions that I wanted answered. Not only about this, but about my believes in general.  Well, after all kinds of research and happenings I came to "Enochian Magic".
And yes it got my attention.

Due to the fact that I'm fairly new to this and still have to discern  between fiction (like movies)and reality I find it very helpful to get as many insights as possible.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on June 25, 2010, 12:01:50 AM
Ok try this for an insight.
Magic is not something you can get from a book.
Magic is an experience.
Insights from words are empty and 2 dimensional until you have experiences to marry them to.

People want to know it all before they try it.
When people read about magic they want to make sure they have all their protections and countermeasures in place, just in case
They want to be fully prepared


This type of thinking is actually a barrier to experiencing the things they read about.
It keeps them safe and hidden behind a wall of their own making, but actually outside their control.
It is a form of contingency thinking, when they have x, then they can y.
This is the ritualistic realm of the daily waking rational social human.
It is a mind trap more powerful than any conjuration triangle.

Magic is the realm outside this.
To experience it you have to perform actions that are outside the routines of the daily waking social human.


Personally i cant see how people will learn anything real until they have their own experiences with this stuff.
Thinking about opinions is still only thinking. It is only ever theoretical, still inside their own walled conjuration triangles .

I am not sure people are even interested in magic. I think what they are really after is mental entertainment. For that reading books is enough.

Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on June 25, 2010, 06:43:18 PM
thanks for the reply oldbill.
Let me ponder on this.
Will come back to you.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on June 29, 2010, 10:38:43 PM
Ponder......ponder....... :roll:
Agreed...... magic itself you can not get from a book.
Word, written or spoken do have power.

I see your point. But what is wrong with drawing on other peoples experiences?
You can never be totally prepared :doh:

What is a "daily waking social human"?


Note:  Want to read more about it ----- because I have experienced it.   :focus:
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Arcane Artifice on June 29, 2010, 10:47:05 PM
From what I've read Enochian is potent, powerful, and hard to control. However I'm still very interested in it and am still looking into it. I would approach your studies and possible practices with caution and guard however. Other than that if you have the passion and drive I would say go for it, just be safe about it.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on June 30, 2010, 12:59:49 AM

SKGS what have you actually learnt by reading other peoples opinions about this?
What do you think you could learn?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: RunningElk on June 30, 2010, 03:24:06 AM
SKGS the daily waking man is pleb who works in a cubicle with a family or alone in a bachelor apartment with a mortgage and likes to spend others money till he is drowning debt till he cant and takes his own life like the (language sorry) pussy he is god bless captoilism
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on June 30, 2010, 02:59:20 PM
This isnt what i meant at all runningelk.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: RunningElk on June 30, 2010, 04:05:25 PM
sorry everyone that wasnt called for as you read im a bit of anti-system (wish i could say man) person its just wrong but this agenda is straying from the proper subject so chop chop lets get back to buiessness :focus:
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on July 01, 2010, 08:53:09 PM
Are we playing word games?

What I was looking for was experiences good or bad and what people (who had experiences w/Enochian Magic) thought about it; have a discussion on subject matter.

I was under the impression that this forum is for one thing an exchange of thoughts, knowledge and information.
Example:  Rave gave a really good author Stephen Skinner (different post so).
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on July 07, 2010, 02:44:33 PM
From what I've read Enochian is potent, powerful, and hard to control. However I'm still very interested in it and am still looking into it. I would approach your studies and possible practices with caution and guard however. Other than that if you have the passion and drive I would say go for it, just be safe about it.

name one type of magick that isn't hailed with the same amount of power...either way you are utilizing outside influences to empower you...i still find it rather disheartening that so many people look to outside masters for their solutions rather than spending more time on improving themselves as a human to deal with what they need "magick" for.

Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 15, 2010, 11:52:23 AM
But you are only talking about self help Jordyn.

That is nowhere near as impressive to the ego as wielding magic and conversing with demons/angels.

And that i fear is the root of all of this.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 15, 2010, 04:57:35 PM
exactly what is enochian magic ?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on July 15, 2010, 09:27:42 PM
In short - it is ceremonial magic to summon angels.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 16, 2010, 04:00:03 PM
OK skgs i will give you my worthless opinion on the subject of enochian magic.

In my opinion it is a bunch of intentionally over complicated drivel to pull the wool over the eyes of people who dont know any better.
It works on the principle "baffle them with bullsh@t"

I remember when the first book 'the keys of enochian magic' first came out, must have been 25 years ago. It sold quite well amongst occult circles and the first New Age shops that were starting to spring up. Lo and behold a second and third book came out soon after. I played around with it for a while, even designed an entire RPG world set in the astral plane using the tablets seals and calls as part of the game. I wondered if people concentraing on them for entire evenings would have any effect.
But I digress......

It is only in the paradgim of  totally believing this fiction, or that of superstition, that we can get any results whatsoever.
The results are akin to the power of auto suggestion or self hypnosis, with accompanying historical background and supporting storyline to reinforce the interpretation of any effects.

Not that self hypnosis should be underestimated. Its a great tool, and works well within a good story. It is just healthier to see it for what it is rather than get caught up in the nonsense of the supporting story line.

Anyone care to disagree can simply post up their experiences with using enochian magic for me to look at.
I am quite prepared to be wrong should i see genuine experience to the contrary.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on July 16, 2010, 09:33:27 PM
After researching and a lot of reading and trying for several month now I have come to the same opinion as Oldbill.

I had started this post to see if anybody had the same or a different experience.

Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 17, 2010, 01:19:07 AM
Hooray hooray hooray hooray hooray hooray

Opinions based on open minded experimentation.
Now my own opinion has some worth for you, that of confirmation

There is a ray of hope for Monstrous after all.
Maybe this is the start of a New Golden Dawn here.


On a slightly different tack i do think that enochian magic has a value as a story or magical paradigm to work with IF it resonates with us and we feel we can really get into it.
Magical lets pretend is a great tool and valid technique. This is one of the founding concepts behind chaos magic. Which i feel is slightly more intelligent way of approaching occultism in these times.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 17, 2010, 12:30:57 PM
hmm so when did enochian magic start ? is it old magic or something kinda new ? or was that book the initial start of enochian magic ?

Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 17, 2010, 12:58:18 PM
Well seeing as how it is just stories based on stories when does anything really start?

My guess is that this style of magic has been around as long as the word 'angel' was first uttered.

 Consider this, until books like  LaVeys work and 'the keys of enochian magic' entered the scene this wasnt even really  a subject. It was the popularisation of these media that  turned these myths into a legitimate public occult followings. People now talk about enochian magic like it was a standard study subject with deep roots and awesome magical potential. In reality its a set of stories that have worked together to create something more than their meagre origins. If there is any real magic in it, it is this.

Enochian magic is a good example of the process of history and the effect of ideas and stories on the human mind. Some ideas grow, others floursih, others die.   If you want another example of the power of mere stories look at the story of Christ. Or vampires for that matter.

oops, did i really say that?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 18, 2010, 08:34:01 AM
ah thanks oldbill4823 but now i've lost interest in this magic since basically its not really magic   *<:)
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 18, 2010, 08:47:30 AM
Hmmm, i wonder when are you going to say the same thing about vampires werewolves demon hunters and therians, in fact any of these things that are based on stories.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 18, 2010, 09:46:23 AM
eh maybe or maybe not BUT my main  focus is to make my abilities better so that i can have fun with 'em which hopefully would end my misery with people : *(
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 18, 2010, 11:19:09 AM
I think this is where you are going wrong CM. Yes by all means have fun with people, but to look to develop special powers as a cure for all your problems with people is wrong. It is this type of thinking that is the cause problems with people.

If you want to develop, well thats great, but be realistic about what it is that you want.
If you want better relations with people then work on that. If you want better relationships with people study communication skills, not psychic development.

If you want to develop things that most people wont understand, well  that is something completely different. Most likely it will make normal relationships with friends family etc very very difficult.

The thing i see time and time again is people that feel incomplete, people that feel they are missing something,  somehow think they will solve all their problems with being a werewolf or having special powers over people. This is just really f@@ked up thinking. Its retarded thinking that is stuck at teenage fantasy level. Ie bad, dumb, nuts, piss poor, lame.  Get the idea?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 18, 2010, 12:10:26 PM
no i don't want to improve my abilities so that things are better between people and i. for people to wanna talk to me i'd basically have to change myself which i'll never do and the communication and all that crap.
its just that im tired of being put down so much, feeling like a monster, being treated like crap for no reason : *( im f*#king tired of it ! : *(
so for those who do me wrong i want 'em to feel hell because its not right what people always put me through : *( : *(
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 18, 2010, 12:35:35 PM
CM we risk starting a whole new topic here. Maybe you should start one in idle called "why do people treat me like crap?"

The topic WAS enochian magic, hopefully it will be again soon.   :focus:
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on July 18, 2010, 02:38:24 PM
hmm so when did enochian magic start ? is it old magic or something kinda new ? or was that book the initial start of enochian magic ?



  The Enochian Script was devised by a rather talented individual to persuade an rather dense man of power/money/influence to fund his research.  There have been multiple versions of the script over the years, all of which claim that they are the true version.  The Script has been said to have been handed down by the Angel Ave (good luck finding anything else on this angel) and then later revised by another Angel due to the fact that the original was incorrect. (Now do we really want to play with a skewed form of magic that angels can not even agree upon?)  In all I would say that the Enochian Script is less than reliable and not to be trusted even on the best of days. 

  I myself have found 4 different versions of it, all of which I have copied down to study, but seeing as no one has yet to prove which is best that is alls I can use it for, reference material.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 18, 2010, 03:42:19 PM
no with a couple my abilities... lets say i think that if improve them ALOT then i can literally unleash hell on those who hurt me.. i don't wanna further explain but yea or maybe i will but in a new topic

 :focus:
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: matthew321 on July 18, 2010, 11:00:34 PM
Confused_Mystery I believe that is a horrible use of power and magick. With that motivation you will not achieve greatness or success only failure. There are rules to magick, more like guidelines. One of them is anything you do will come back to you 10 fold good or bad. Look in the witches brew to see a long post about the rules of magick.

I tell you this because with great power comes great responsibility. 

I couldn't care less what your reasons are who you would hurt, but what you are saying does not sound like defense. It sounds more like an excuse.

All I have heard about Enochian magick is that it was passed down by a goddess (or angel). It was then later revised and has been copied many times. Anything original about it is scarce.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on July 19, 2010, 02:13:14 PM
The other thing i have to point out to you confused mystery is that they are in no way 'your powers'. They are experiences that have happened to you. They are not under your control. You do not have the discipline, understanding, or capacity call on these experiences when you want them. In all likely hood you never will. So calling them 'your powers' is deluded.

I am sorry to be harsh, but the world is not fluffy comic book, or a nice story with a happy ending. Growing up is tough. Especially when wierd s**t happens to us.
I look back on how my own life was completley derailed by experiences that in all honesty, i never really recovered from. There was no one to put me back together. No one who understood, no one i felt i could talk to. In many ways this was the greatest gift that ever happened to me. 

The thing about the truly wierd things that happened to me is that after all the years of confusion faded, i was quite  bitter and angry about it all. This also lasted many years. I feel i am shedding that now. I see that stage was just self pity. This is a really dreadful feeling to fill what is left of my life with.  In all honesty i have hung out here at Monstrous thinking i could help people who, like you, were going through the confusion after the wierd stuff happens.  That and also i was rehashing all the things that happened to me, and in truth, postponing  doing anything with what i have discovered.

I find myself now in a position where i understand so much and yet still dont have enough power to act in the worlds that are waiting out there. Its time to change that now for me. I have no idea if i can even achieve what i know is possible. I do know that i want to try.

So my dear Confused Mystery hang out here and improve your communication skills. Maybe later much much later you will have enough about you to claim your experiences as powers. Until then you should ask yourself the question 'what is delusion'?

All the best , OB.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 19, 2010, 10:27:59 PM
my reasons for improving myself with the abilities wouldn't be complete lashing out but in a way i want to help those that feel lonely, hurt, and feel that they're rejects of society because of who they are(the hurt and ugly like me).

and the experiences with demons/angels/spirits didn't screw me up or traumatize me, it made me much more stronger as a person.
the experiences i've had and have with PEOPLE is what screwed me up and has made me angry, hurt,rejected, judged, and alone.
all i get is crap from people and see those that get the same treatment and it pisses me off so much.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on July 20, 2010, 11:43:45 AM
ugly like me

  If I ever hear you say this again I may have to make a trip down south and set you straight!  I can see your picture little one and what is more I can see more than just your physical self and I see nothing ugly in any of it!  NOT! ONE! BIT!  I do see confusion yes, but confusion can be cleared.

  You need to not let what others say about you affect you so dear, what you do need to do is look them back right in the eye and ask them what makes them think that their opinion is so important to you.  Make them realize that they are simply insignificant in your life (and if they are abusive to you in any way shape or form than believe me they ARE insignificant!)  You need to show these people you are a power and that you stand on your own and for yourself, make them feel insignificant by showing them how worthless you think their opinion is.

  P.S. You will find that once you begin doing what I suggested before your own power and selfworth will burst forth then you will see exactly what I am talking about.  Also if there is ever anyone you need me to speak with on your behalf you simply have but to ask, for one such as I it will never be any trouble.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 20, 2010, 12:52:54 PM
i've been told that i've been ugly my whole life even recently a friendship was broken because the guy told me i was too ugly to hang out with 'em and i'll explain that i embrace my ugliness in another topic. but i already know what my purpose  is and i will fulfill it  :).

i wonder whats the origin of enochian magic, i mean if its to summon angels then shouldn't it be called something along the lines of angelic magic ?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on July 21, 2010, 10:52:50 AM
  Enochian magic has roots in the Book of Enoch hence Enochian.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on July 21, 2010, 06:18:53 PM
ah ok now i understand XD
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on July 21, 2010, 11:19:36 PM
i'm posting from my phone so i have limited ability one of which is quoting...so i hope people remember their questions.   First ceremonial magic deals with both devils and angels,  most of the current "dark arts " are based on it, having experiences with that led me to Abraham's  God...i know it works and what it eventually costs, i'm content with my spiritual human girl life.  Secondly Enoch was a biblical guy who spoke to angels... *shrugs* for that reason i have no knowledge of it's magickal validity. My ex brother in law was a zealous follower of it also, that's strike two.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Zeppelin on November 07, 2010, 09:40:03 PM
So i'm hearing alot of different opinions.  Is Enochian a potential magick or just over exaggerated through passed on generations and increased popularity?

I did a little research on Enochian last week, only brief though.  Enochian is like the language of angels right?  By using that the theory is that you could summon and angel and harness their power and using it for yourself?

It kind of sounds foolish to me, if Enochian is what it says then it has to be extremely dangerous.  I mean you can draw energy from natural wordly elements but to try and take power from an other wordly being seems dangerous.  Whether it be from Angels or dark energy from demons..  Seems almost insane and impossible to control if its even possible. 

Maybe someone might have just a little more information on it.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 08, 2010, 06:34:44 AM
it's basically angel worship, some guy got on along better with the messengers and servants of the Lord.  Being a Gd worshiper, i don't deal with the middle men in any of my life's needs....it's all between my One God and me, his humble temple, subject to only his judgement; as long as i live by the rules of society i have no one else worthy to pass such judgment.

back to understanding where it comes from before you can understand it's power in your life, how can one master what they do not know?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 08, 2010, 06:44:37 AM
no with a couple my abilities... lets say i think that if improve them ALOT then i can literally unleash hell on those who hurt me.. i don't wanna further explain but yea or maybe i will but in a new topic

 :focus:

they're not talking physical ugliness, you're not ugly...but with statements like this it makes me wonder what they are seeing, ugliness is more than just a physical appearance, negative people, unhappy people, bitter people, people who place more faith in the outside rather then their inside and make statements like this, concern me...rather than focusing on getting power to make those who hurt you suffer, discover the paths that eliminate those thoughts and encourage you to have a sympathetic understanding for the folly of people knowing that you don't have to behave like them...i wasn't popular in school and i tried this path...i was one of the ugliest most hateful people i knew...i was going to a catholic church but now i realize i was more unhappy with myself that allowed others to pick on that weakness...

you don't realize how much this stuff can muck you up until you realize how much of your humanity you can lose.

i know some beautiful girls i was friends with, but they were ugly on the inside so that they became a vexation to my soul...i avoid them.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Zeppelin on November 08, 2010, 07:56:06 AM
I completely agree.  It wouldn't make sense to go to someone less powerful when you could go straight to the top.  I tihnk angels are meant to be guardians of humans but not actually provide our every last wish.  Life isn't always perfect but there are always to fix it on your own and when you've at least tried and failed then God will help out.   

Dealing with Angelic magick seems dangerous and reckless.. I wouldn't want to piss off an angel by asking it for power to do simple tasks or to use as revenge.  Things like that are selfish and its lazy in a way because youre asking for all this power for tasks you could do yourself.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 08, 2010, 09:04:07 AM
I'd be more concerned with pissing off God...he's pretty adamant about being the only one deserving worship.

but generally i agree with the rest of your statement.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Zeppelin on November 08, 2010, 09:10:17 AM
Yah God seems kind of wrathful in the old testament I'd hate to piss him off.  %*)
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 08, 2010, 09:12:36 AM
he was an overworked father dealing with several hundred wayward children he was incapable of understanding, you should see me when my kid upsets me.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 08, 2010, 01:19:02 PM
So i'm hearing alot of different opinions.  Is Enochian a potential magick or just over exaggerated through passed on generations and increased popularity?

I did a little research on Enochian last week, only brief though.  Enochian is like the language of angels right?  By using that the theory is that you could summon and angel and harness their power and using it for yourself?

It kind of sounds foolish to me, if Enochian is what it says then it has to be extremely dangerous.  I mean you can draw energy from natural wordly elements but to try and take power from an other wordly being seems dangerous.  Whether it be from Angels or dark energy from demons..  Seems almost insane and impossible to control if its even possible. 

Maybe someone might have just a little more information on it.
I completely agree.  It wouldn't make sense to go to someone less powerful when you could go straight to the top.  I tihnk angels are meant to be guardians of humans but not actually provide our every last wish.  Life isn't always perfect but there are always to fix it on your own and when you've at least tried and failed then God will help out.  

Dealing with Angelic magick seems dangerous and reckless.. I wouldn't want to piss off an angel by asking it for power to do simple tasks or to use as revenge.  Things like that are selfish and its lazy in a way because youre asking for all this power for tasks you could do yourself.

  Oh my Oh my OH MY.  It seems we may have struck something near gold with this one.  There must be a god because I had almost given up hope of someone with any sensibilities ever again joining our community and low and behold here is one with much promise.  Common sense, humility, and a willingness to look at things from differing view points!  To top it off he has also shown not only the want to learn new things but he has also demonstrated an ability to research his own answers before speaking about things.  So far I am slightly impressed.  Stick around and keep it up Zep.

  P.S. You may want to start using the spell check option a bit more.  Proper punctuation and spelling go along way in others perceptions.  Just a little friendly advice, which I do not offer all that often. (the friendly part at least)
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 08, 2010, 03:11:28 PM
So i'm hearing alot of different opinions.  Is Enochian a potential magick or just over exaggerated through passed on generations and increased popularity?

I did a little research on Enochian last week, only brief though.  Enochian is like the language of angels right?  By using that the theory is that you could summon and angel and harness their power and using it for yourself?

It kind of sounds foolish to me, if Enochian is what it says then it has to be extremely dangerous.  I mean you can draw energy from natural wordly elements but to try and take power from an other wordly being seems dangerous.  Whether it be from Angels or dark energy from demons..  Seems almost insane and impossible to control if its even possible. 

Maybe someone might have just a little more information on it.
I completely agree.  It wouldn't make sense to go to someone less powerful when you could go straight to the top.  I tihnk angels are meant to be guardians of humans but not actually provide our every last wish.  Life isn't always perfect but there are always to fix it on your own and when you've at least tried and failed then God will help out.  

Dealing with Angelic magick seems dangerous and reckless.. I wouldn't want to piss off an angel by asking it for power to do simple tasks or to use as revenge.  Things like that are selfish and its lazy in a way because youre asking for all this power for tasks you could do yourself.

  Oh my Oh my OH MY.  It seems we may have struck something near gold with this one.  There must be a god because I had almost given up hope of someone with any sensibilities ever again joining our community and low and behold here is one with much promise.  Common sense, humility, and a willingness to look at things from differing view points!  To top it off he has also shown not only the want to learn new things but he has also demonstrated an ability to research his own answers before speaking about things.  So far I am slightly impressed.  Stick around and keep it up Zep.

  P.S. You may want to start using the spell check option a bit more.  Proper punctuation and spelling go along way in others perceptions.  Just a little friendly advice, which I do not offer all that often. (the friendly part at least)

I think I'll reserve my judgment here, Muerte. Many have joined that had a lot of promise, only to disappoint as soon as that promise was noticed. Hiowever, for the time being... he does still have that promise for now though.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Hunter82 on November 09, 2010, 10:25:04 PM
Hello Everyone. I'm rather new but would like to comment on the subject if i could.

My personal feelings are magic of any type can be dangerous if the person wielding it is of weak will. Every form of magic is a projection of ones will to effect an outcome of some sorts.

In short Enochian magic is no more dangerous than a loaded pistol. In the right hands it is a tool just like anything else; in the wrong hands it becomes a menace.

If you have any fear of practicing a certain type of magic I suggest you start off slow with something your more able to cope with until you build up the will to move on to what you want to do.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 10, 2010, 06:28:58 AM
Hello Everyone. I'm rather new but would like to comment on the subject if i could.

My personal feelings are magic of any type can be dangerous if the person wielding it is of weak will. Every form of magic is a projection of ones will to effect an outcome of some sorts.

In short Enochian magic is no more dangerous than a loaded pistol. In the right hands it is a tool just like anything else; in the wrong hands it becomes a menace.

If you have any fear of practicing a certain type of magic I suggest you start off slow with something your more able to cope with until you build up the will to move on to what you want to do.

the right hands  in this context don't need tools, they have their mind and a strong enough will.

but some tools in the right hands can make amazing things!

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/dynnykuns/jewelery/ (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/dynnykuns/jewelery/)
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Hunter82 on November 10, 2010, 07:23:09 AM
Hello Everyone. I'm rather new but would like to comment on the subject if i could.

My personal feelings are magic of any type can be dangerous if the person wielding it is of weak will. Every form of magic is a projection of ones will to effect an outcome of some sorts.

In short Enochian magic is no more dangerous than a loaded pistol. In the right hands it is a tool just like anything else; in the wrong hands it becomes a menace.

If you have any fear of practicing a certain type of magic I suggest you start off slow with something your more able to cope with until you build up the will to move on to what you want to do.

the right hands  in this context don't need tools, they have their mind and a strong enough will.

but some tools in the right hands can make amazing things!

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/dynnykuns/jewelery/ (http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/dynnykuns/jewelery/)

In this context the mind and a strong will are the tools.  Nice jewelery by the way.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 10, 2010, 07:44:17 AM
Hello Everyone. I'm rather new but would like to comment on the subject if i could.

My personal feelings are magic of any type can be dangerous if the person wielding it is of weak will. Every form of magic is a projection of ones will to effect an outcome of some sorts.

In short Enochian magic is no more dangerous than a loaded pistol. In the right hands it is a tool just like anything else; in the wrong hands it becomes a menace.

If you have any fear of practicing a certain type of magic I suggest you start off slow with something your more able to cope with until you build up the will to move on to what you want to do.

  Not telling us anything we do not already know however thank you for sharing your opinion and framing in such a way that it is understandable.

  As for the available enochian scripts, well I would be more than happy to let anyone use it.  The fact of the matter is that there are multiple scripts available and the likely hood that anyone actually finds and uses the original script is very slim at best.  I say use it as you will.  This way I can find out which is false and which is true.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Hunter82 on November 10, 2010, 10:58:05 AM

  Not telling us anything we do not already know however thank you for sharing your opinion and framing in such a way that it is understandable.

  As for the available enochian scripts, well I would be more than happy to let anyone use it.  The fact of the matter is that there are multiple scripts available and the likely hood that anyone actually finds and uses the original script is very slim at best.  I say use it as you will.  This way I can find out which is false and which is true.

Sorry I got the feeling that the op was new and wanted to give him some incite, tho it is common knowledge (you would be surprised how uncommon common knowledge/common sense actual is).

As for enochian scripts read many books and form a opinion from what you read. Look for books with reference to Dr. John Dee.

And brush up on your latin if you haven't already
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on November 11, 2010, 04:07:29 PM
no with a couple my abilities... lets say i think that if improve them ALOT then i can literally unleash hell on those who hurt me.. i don't wanna further explain but yea or maybe i will but in a new topic

 :focus:

they're not talking physical ugliness, you're not ugly...but with statements like this it makes me wonder what they are seeing, ugliness is more than just a physical appearance, negative people, unhappy people, bitter people, people who place more faith in the outside rather then their inside and make statements like this, concern me...rather than focusing on getting power to make those who hurt you suffer, discover the paths that eliminate those thoughts and encourage you to have a sympathetic understanding for the folly of people knowing that you don't have to behave like them...i wasn't popular in school and i tried this path...i was one of the ugliest most hateful people i knew...i was going to a catholic church but now i realize i was more unhappy with myself that allowed others to pick on that weakness...

you don't realize how much this stuff can muck you up until you realize how much of your humanity you can lose.

i know some beautiful girls i was friends with, but they were ugly on the inside so that they became a vexation to my soul...i avoid them.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on November 11, 2010, 04:44:14 PM
 To jordyn :
ok my continued response to the quote that i accidently sent as a full message(well actually the computer went blank for a couple seconds and then i see that the quote was sent as a message, another example of how computers love to screw with me :lol: ), well i use to be completely and VERY bitter. The reason for my statements is because of my history with people which basically is that they reject and treat me like crap when i've done nothing wrong to them. Its been like that my whole life. I mean noone would give me a chance to show my caring, happy, and funny side, no they'd just shut me out. i'm done with playing nice and trying. So now i just keep to myself and completely freak out and scare the hell out of people by completely being myself. Most of my humanity has been destroyed  :lol: Also i won't let this stuff much me up because i'm much stronger than that  :-D
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 11, 2010, 07:14:48 PM

  Not telling us anything we do not already know however thank you for sharing your opinion and framing in such a way that it is understandable.

  As for the available enochian scripts, well I would be more than happy to let anyone use it.  The fact of the matter is that there are multiple scripts available and the likely hood that anyone actually finds and uses the original script is very slim at best.  I say use it as you will.  This way I can find out which is false and which is true.

Sorry I got the feeling that the op was new and wanted to give him some incite, tho it is common knowledge (you would be surprised how uncommon common knowledge/common sense actual is).

As for enochian scripts read many books and form a opinion from what you read. Look for books with reference to Dr. John Dee.

And brush up on your latin if you haven't already

  Been there done that.  As if I were one to not do my homework.  The problem here is the original script seems to be missing.  What we have left is just a compilation of others interpretations.  That's always a very smart thing to do.  Take something, modify it, and then let others play with it. 

  As you can see I have formed an opinion, and it leaves me to believe what is available is some what lacking in the believability department. 

Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: SKGS on November 12, 2010, 07:36:14 AM
Completely agree with Muerte on the available enochian scripts.
If anyone finds one that works, let me know, if you are still able to afterward.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on November 12, 2010, 09:30:38 AM
They are about as genuine as the Hitler diaries, or  the Cthulu mythos.

IMHO Its an interesting magical paradigm either, if you believe it totally, or are capable of working magically with your own self deception.

Tenuous links to John Dee and Latin do not have dominion over results. They are just theatrical polyfiller glamours that help set a scene.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 12, 2010, 01:53:41 PM

  Not telling us anything we do not already know however thank you for sharing your opinion and framing in such a way that it is understandable.

  As for the available enochian scripts, well I would be more than happy to let anyone use it.  The fact of the matter is that there are multiple scripts available and the likely hood that anyone actually finds and uses the original script is very slim at best.  I say use it as you will.  This way I can find out which is false and which is true.

Sorry I got the feeling that the op was new and wanted to give him some incite, tho it is common knowledge (you would be surprised how uncommon common knowledge/common sense actual is).

As for enochian scripts read many books and form a opinion from what you read. Look for books with reference to Dr. John Dee.

And brush up on your latin if you haven't already

You know what Latin is, Kid? It's a dead language. Dead languages aren't magical, they impart no special character or power to a person's will; they just sound good to retards, morons, and poseurs - like you.

Grow up and get off our boards until you have something worthwhile to add.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: ViciouslyMe on November 13, 2010, 03:32:43 AM
I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Hunter82 on November 13, 2010, 03:49:24 AM

  Not telling us anything we do not already know however thank you for sharing your opinion and framing in such a way that it is understandable.

  As for the available enochian scripts, well I would be more than happy to let anyone use it.  The fact of the matter is that there are multiple scripts available and the likely hood that anyone actually finds and uses the original script is very slim at best.  I say use it as you will.  This way I can find out which is false and which is true.

Sorry I got the feeling that the op was new and wanted to give him some incite, tho it is common knowledge (you would be surprised how uncommon common knowledge/common sense actual is).

As for enochian scripts read many books and form a opinion from what you read. Look for books with reference to Dr. John Dee.

And brush up on your latin if you haven't already

You know what Latin is, Kid? It's a dead language. Dead languages aren't magical, they impart no special character or power to a person's will; they just sound good to retards, morons, and poseurs - like you.

Grow up and get off our boards until you have something worthwhile to add.

Lol wow the epeens around here are hundreds of miles long. Trust me i am done with these boards. I fully know what a dead language is. Its one that is not spoken any longer so it does not change.

The reason I said what I said is because most of the materials on enochian magic I've came across have been in latin.  Enochian magic is just like any other magic you have to work your way around a bunch of crap before you find something that works.

As for calling me "kid" that's a nice way to treat new members. :) So continue to work in the realm of what you know stick with your view on things and never learn anything new.

I am far from a poser but I don't have to boast my credentials on a forum to feel better about myself, But if I did they would be verifiable can you say the same? or do you practice from your parents basement?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: ViciouslyMe on November 13, 2010, 03:58:40 AM
Hunter, has anyone ever told you not to poke the sleeping bear?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 13, 2010, 06:41:46 AM
Eh, if it stays true to its word... I won't bother going any further; but if this is just some stupid school kid ruse to try and garner sympathy and support from others here... well, we'll see who does the poking, and who does the destroying.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: oldbill4823 on November 13, 2010, 08:03:00 AM
Ok Hunter write up your experience of 'working' enochian magic.
That seems the simplest solution to the whole debate. Experience is the ultimate answer to all of this.
So far it appears that no-one has actually experienced anything with enochian magic, only read about it and posted opinions.
I am completely prepared to look at ANY genuine experience from anyone.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on November 15, 2010, 05:18:02 AM
I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  :-D. well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 :focus:

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Angelus on November 15, 2010, 05:11:53 PM
I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  :-D. well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 :focus:

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)

Don't see why not. Alot of spells that modern Wiccans, Pagans etc, etc use are translations from other languages. Alot of early, judeo/christian spells have been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 17, 2010, 03:55:05 PM
  I submit this. 

  Most pagan Spells/rituals are of human origin.  Enochian is from a totally different spices/entity.  It was translated to Human tounge for us to understand, but would that make it at all effective?  Perchance the ineffectiveness of this form of "spell-craft" is due to the incompatibility of one species to another.  Do you honestly think that we humans could speak the angelic/demonic language?  Anyone ever wonder why they would elect to speak mankind's tongue as appose to speaking to us in theirs?  I will leave you with this to ponder.

  Will is only a portion in spell-craft.  Another portion is understanding and when you translate words from one language to another then there is room for error/ineffectiveness.  That's just dealing with mankind's diverse languages, imagine what it would do when going from one species to another.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 17, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
I would like to add a disclaimer, as a practitioner of some of the blackest Arts, so to speak. Will is everything, and will is not manifested solely in the physical, but is actually more pronounced in the mental, or thought processes. Language is merely a form of expressing one's will, and being anchored in the physical, it is both prone to, and critically encumbered by, fallacies, misunderstanding, and the like.

Therefore, I submit that language is a non-problem if one can rise above the need for it.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: confused_mystery on November 19, 2010, 09:55:29 AM
I'm sorry to go off topic, but I have to wonder. CM, you say not to worry because you're strong, but right before that you also say that your humanity was destroyed. The world is a cold place for everyone, not just one person. We all get s**t (sorry for the language), and we all have people who criticize. Being strong is to hold on to your humanity despite that.

And sorry for going all after school special here, but it needed to be said.

I say that I'm stronger because I don't let other people get to me even those that I care about the most, i just really don't care anymore  :-D. well i didn't say all of my humanity is destroyed, just a lot of it but its not a big deal to me at all.

 :focus:

ok this might be a dumb question but the the tiny bit of enochian magic that might work, could it be done in different languages ? (i'm not going to try it, just something to throw out here)

Don't see why not. Alot of spells that modern Wiccans, Pagans etc, etc use are translations from other languages. Alot of early, judeo/christian spells have been translated from Hebrew to Latin to English.

but then muerte brings a good point, so due to it being translated from one species' language to another then the translation would be very inaccurate.


  I submit this. 

  Most pagan Spells/rituals are of human origin.  Enochian is from a totally different spices/entity.  It was translated to Human tounge for us to understand, but would that make it at all effective?  Perchance the ineffectiveness of this form of "spell-craft" is due to the incompatibility of one species to another.  Do you honestly think that we humans could speak the angelic/demonic language?  Anyone ever wonder why they would elect to speak mankind's tongue as appose to speaking to us in theirs?  I will leave you with this to ponder.

  Will is only a portion in spell-craft.  Another portion is understanding and when you translate words from one language to another then there is room for error/ineffectiveness.  That's just dealing with mankind's diverse languages, imagine what it would do when going from one species to another.


Ok when u put it that way, i thought of one thing... CONTROL which would branch out to a lot of things (and i bet this is where billions of guesses could be made  :-D ). With that kind of magic that's theirs and given to us, all those spells that the practitioners think they're benefiting from could actually be spells that would possess pieces of that person without them knowing or somehow hurting them. So basically what i'm trying to explain is that those who think they're benefiting from that are actually getting screwed over. No one truly knows exactly what the text means, only the angels and demons.

hot or cold Muerte ?  :-D
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 19, 2010, 11:11:22 AM
  @ C.M - Pretty close to hot.

  @ Moloch - You of course are more advanced than the run of the mill practitioner.  What I stated is mostly for those who are dabbling.  I would compare it to working on your own car with the Chilton one signs out from the local library.  Sure the information is there in front of you, but if you have no idea what it means how is it going to help you?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 19, 2010, 05:40:07 PM
Lol, which is why I don't ever give them more than enough to get them into trouble.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 21, 2010, 08:45:19 PM
good points, look at what a mess the bible is, that's all human...

however angels are able to speak in our language, there's countless stories, in and out of the bible with these messengers interacting with us on behalf of God, why would they tell one person to tell others to call on them, when an actual angel would be acting on behalf of Him?

but everything's Latin...silly romans.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Angelus on November 22, 2010, 03:20:09 PM
I never thought of this before but with angels, they may experience emotions or sensations that we are incapable of and so we have no word for making it impossible to translate.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 23, 2010, 06:01:35 AM
at this point i'm favoring; some people have it, some people don't...the more one needs to aid their skill, the less the skill is theirs leaving them to seek out angels, demons or any other creature not of the human world to do what as a human, they're not supposed to be doing. 

if you have the ability to feel them, you make a good point angelus...one needs nothing but a heart and will.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 23, 2010, 07:57:54 AM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Nina on November 23, 2010, 08:03:06 AM
I think it has something to do with temptation, but then again, Im not much of a christian!  :-D
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: bhambrice on November 23, 2010, 04:51:23 PM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
We have the capability of communicating with angels just as people have the capability of communicating with demons. The problem is people are not taught that they can. Angels are usually sent to deliver messages. They only talk when needed.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: AWBrielle on November 23, 2010, 07:42:03 PM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
We have the capability of communicating with angels just as people have the capability of communicating with demons. The problem is people are not taught that they can. Angels are usually sent to deliver messages. They only talk when needed.

The way this was written makes angels seem meek in nature. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but to clarify (for those wondering), they're beings of unimaginable power. So, a mere human wouldn't really matter much. We are to angels as insects are to humans - er, at least, in the grand scheme of things.

So, sure, we have the capability to communicate with angels, just as we can talk to demons. It doesn't mean that it'll happen.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 25, 2010, 07:39:10 AM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?

who says that?

on the contrary i believe he gave us those very things to see how we fair without him and feel what he has to deal with, as it comes to spiritualism, who says he necessarily has control over who gets "it" and who doesn't?

like all supernatural they seek out what's compatible and most receptive to their influence, I dealt with this stuff long before i embraced the Judaic God, so i don't think he really has anything to do with it unless a person chooses for him to do so.

we're humans and if we do something that the gods don't like, they smack us hard and good, the tower of babel is a good example, in this context.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 25, 2010, 07:43:07 AM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
We have the capability of communicating with angels just as people have the capability of communicating with demons. The problem is people are not taught that they can. Angels are usually sent to deliver messages. They only talk when needed.

The way this was written makes angels seem meek in nature. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but to clarify (for those wondering), they're beings of unimaginable power. So, a mere human wouldn't really matter much. We are to angels as insects are to humans - er, at least, in the grand scheme of things.



then they're disobeying God, wasn't that supposed to be what sent the fallen angels away?  a temper tantrum because God stated we had dominion over everything even them...it didn't sit well with angels that had the same attitude towards humanity that you seem to have presented, god has always sent them as messengers to those he keeps an eye on...if angels step out of their position, well...we all get smack downs for disobedience.

i guess it's just where you want to put your spiritual faith?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: AWBrielle on November 25, 2010, 01:39:37 PM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
We have the capability of communicating with angels just as people have the capability of communicating with demons. The problem is people are not taught that they can. Angels are usually sent to deliver messages. They only talk when needed.

The way this was written makes angels seem meek in nature. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but to clarify (for those wondering), they're beings of unimaginable power. So, a mere human wouldn't really matter much. We are to angels as insects are to humans - er, at least, in the grand scheme of things.



then they're disobeying God, wasn't that supposed to be what sent the fallen angels away?  a temper tantrum because God stated we had dominion over everything even them...it didn't sit well with angels that had the same attitude towards humanity that you seem to have presented, god has always sent them as messengers to those he keeps an eye on...if angels step out of their position, well...we all get smack downs for disobedience.

i guess it's just where you want to put your spiritual faith?

You misunderstand me. Of course we are important, but there are so many of us, and we are of much lesser power than they are. They do keep watch, and they do intervene when they can, but they won't stop by every single time a human talks to them. Many pray without answer. It doesn't mean we aren't being watched, merely that we aren't going to get answers as often as we would like.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Muerte on November 25, 2010, 09:32:25 PM
  Or the ones doing the asking are found wanting and there for unworthy of answer?
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: AWBrielle on November 26, 2010, 11:13:04 AM
  Or the ones doing the asking are found wanting and there for unworthy of answer?

...good point.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 26, 2010, 11:22:27 AM
Ok, I'm going to delve into the christian mythos here and ask a blunt question... If your god did not mean for us to be capable of something, why give us the capacity to accomplish it at all?
We have the capability of communicating with angels just as people have the capability of communicating with demons. The problem is people are not taught that they can. Angels are usually sent to deliver messages. They only talk when needed.

The way this was written makes angels seem meek in nature. I'm sure that wasn't intended, but to clarify (for those wondering), they're beings of unimaginable power. So, a mere human wouldn't really matter much. We are to angels as insects are to humans - er, at least, in the grand scheme of things.



then they're disobeying God, wasn't that supposed to be what sent the fallen angels away?  a temper tantrum because God stated we had dominion over everything even them...it didn't sit well with angels that had the same attitude towards humanity that you seem to have presented, god has always sent them as messengers to those he keeps an eye on...if angels step out of their position, well...we all get smack downs for disobedience.

i guess it's just where you want to put your spiritual faith?

You misunderstand me. Of course we are important, but there are so many of us, and we are of much lesser power than they are. They do keep watch, and they do intervene when they can, but they won't stop by every single time a human talks to them. Many pray without answer. It doesn't mean we aren't being watched, merely that we aren't going to get answers as often as we would like.

if your power is derived from a god, then nothing is less than you...the divine power source of it all, whatever you personify it as, if you believe then something created it all.

one of my favorite stories from the new testament is of the widow pounding on the judges door, everyday she knocks on his door asking for him to intercede on her behalf to keep her property, he always says there's nothing he can do...one day after months of knocking the judge finally relents, assures she keeps her house and it all works out in the end.

it depends on the answer your seeking and where you seek it...

we give away our inner divine power to false idols, sometimes they answer but it's always with a cost to your soul and a fracture in your will.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 26, 2010, 11:30:17 AM
Jordyn - I hereby issue you a challenge.

Define 'God' without resorting to religious implements.

"If the primary dichotomy of the Creation is a falsehood and hence does not exist, then must not god, the Devil, heaven, and Hell also not exist? If this is the case, then isn't my life my own, to make a heaven or a Hell out of, and to enjoy either as I see fit?"
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: AWBrielle on November 26, 2010, 12:28:08 PM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 27, 2010, 10:13:31 AM
Jordyn - I hereby issue you a challenge.

Define 'God' without resorting to religious implements.

"If the primary dichotomy of the Creation is a falsehood and hence does not exist, then must not god, the Devil, heaven, and Hell also not exist? If this is the case, then isn't my life my own, to make a heaven or a Hell out of, and to enjoy either as I see fit?"

the only thing in the world you can count on to keep you in touch with your heart and nature, we can interact with it, sense it, feel it, personify it and being the source of our life, that little spark of energy is within all it's creations, i suppose the best analogy would be a giant universal crystal that fractured into millions of shards, each with a bit of this universal consciousness that gives it life.

who says all those shards aren't the creators of humanity?

that's God, i chose to personify It as i needed to allow It to intercede in my life for my spiritual and mental growth, i have to deal with it...

the tuatha du danan, genies, devis and devas...somehow we got constrained to physical bonds, i think that'd suggest we're most dangerous free from them, imagine what we can do while connected to the tangibility of the earth...but now it's just getting to edgar cayce.

i actually agree with your theory of creating our own heaven or hell, as it relates to the state of your mind when you die my heaven is a place of nothing but thought and color, hell would be a inner city drive through and i'm on the intercom at midnight after a blackhawks game,  at that point you're unconstrained to the flesh and well...i don't know what happens after that point, houdini's not talking...but you can't destroy energy, just redirect and define it, but all energy comes from a source.

we have the best of both worlds, why offer it so freely to those who didn't qualify for the choice?

if people are going to support one dogma then they should support the entirety of that dogma, how can one talk to angels if they can't relate to their creator?

enoch is a biblical character....and so are angels, subject to the rules of the culture that created them.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 27, 2010, 10:21:39 AM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.

even as a i witch i didn't believe in picking and choosing, it loses the strength of it's original form...mish mashed into some wishy washy new agey christian witch sort of pseudo religion that's more trendy than fact.

you can't fight ancient devils with donald tyson experience.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: AWBrielle on November 27, 2010, 02:53:26 PM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.

even as a i witch i didn't believe in picking and choosing, it loses the strength of it's original form...mish mashed into some wishy washy new agey christian witch sort of pseudo religion that's more trendy than fact.

you can't fight ancient devils with donald tyson experience.

Oh, no, I don't mean mish mashed with other things. Mostly, I believe in Christian principles, but for instance, I don't think premarital sex means you'll go to hell, or that, you know, certain things that were relevant to the people of that time are still relevant now. Again, not interested in heated religious debates. At all.

I think what I was trying to say earlier got lost in the usage of the wrong words. It wasn't my intent to backfire against Christianity on the whole, just to make a point - which wasn't, in and of itself, clear whatsoever.

I'll kindly back out of this conversation.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 27, 2010, 05:54:40 PM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.

even as a i witch i didn't believe in picking and choosing, it loses the strength of it's original form...mish mashed into some wishy washy new agey christian witch sort of pseudo religion that's more trendy than fact.

you can't fight ancient devils with donald tyson experience.

Oh, no, I don't mean mish mashed with other things. Mostly, I believe in Christian principles, but for instance, I don't think premarital sex means you'll go to hell, or that, you know, certain things that were relevant to the people of that time are still relevant now. Again, not interested in heated religious debates. At all.

I think what I was trying to say earlier got lost in the usage of the wrong words. It wasn't my intent to backfire against Christianity on the whole, just to make a point - which wasn't, in and of itself, clear whatsoever.

I'll kindly back out of this conversation.

It's ok, I backslap christians all the time too.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: chaoticpsyche on November 27, 2010, 09:44:43 PM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.

even as a i witch i didn't believe in picking and choosing, it loses the strength of it's original form...mish mashed into some wishy washy new agey christian witch sort of pseudo religion that's more trendy than fact.

you can't fight ancient devils with donald tyson experience.

Lol, I do as well, It's a knee jerk reaction for me to do so.
Oh, no, I don't mean mish mashed with other things. Mostly, I believe in Christian principles, but for instance, I don't think premarital sex means you'll go to hell, or that, you know, certain things that were relevant to the people of that time are still relevant now. Again, not interested in heated religious debates. At all.

I think what I was trying to say earlier got lost in the usage of the wrong words. It wasn't my intent to backfire against Christianity on the whole, just to make a point - which wasn't, in and of itself, clear whatsoever.

I'll kindly back out of this conversation.

It's ok, I backslap christians all the time too.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Moloch on November 28, 2010, 04:07:04 AM
Well that's no fun!
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: jordyn on November 28, 2010, 07:08:57 AM
Jordyn... your views are very strictly confined to specific religions. My own personal beliefs are somewhat a pick-and-choose based on what I've learned, studied, and know, but to each his own. I do understand what you mean, though, but I don't have to agree, and I'm not going to enter a heated religious debate here.

even as a i witch i didn't believe in picking and choosing, it loses the strength of it's original form...mish mashed into some wishy washy new agey christian witch sort of pseudo religion that's more trendy than fact.

you can't fight ancient devils with donald tyson experience.

Oh, no, I don't mean mish mashed with other things. Mostly, I believe in Christian principles, but for instance, I don't think premarital sex means you'll go to hell, or that, you know, certain things that were relevant to the people of that time are still relevant now. Again, not interested in heated religious debates. At all.

I think what I was trying to say earlier got lost in the usage of the wrong words. It wasn't my intent to backfire against Christianity on the whole, just to make a point - which wasn't, in and of itself, clear whatsoever.

I'll kindly back out of this conversation.

i've been arguing with atheists all week on a different board, i get a little wound up...but it's helped me clarify where exactly i stand.
Title: Re: Enochian Magic
Post by: Angelus on November 28, 2010, 07:24:55 AM
Don't argue with aethiest. They can't prove there isn't and you can't prove there is. No one wins.