Author Topic: Jesus or Isa  (Read 2802 times)

MagnusCrane

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Jesus or Isa
« on: June 20, 2010, 08:52:06 PM »
I decided to bring up this new topic after reading another one called "Spear of Destiny." After reading all of what people had to say, I got wondering about the spear of destiny. Throughout time and memorial, the spear has been a great research. Hell, with all the wars that passed, the so-called spear has been what was used as a symbol of hope and the company standard, similar to Julius Caesar standard of his eagle. To get to my point I starting asking now, what I was asking myself before. The possibility is to be considered that Jesus may not have ever died on the cross. Therefore that would make the spear of destiny, shroud of Turin, and every other relic pertaining to Jesus a false. According to my own research and the research of other colleagues alike, we discovered that there is more information and evidence of Jesus never dieing on the cross, than there is of him actually being on it. I discovered that he may have been referred to as Isa. Now the only thing about that is according to Jesus' background, he was of a Hebrew descent. And since the name Isa is actually Arabic, there is a possibility that he may not have been born with the name Isa. But for sure it also could not be Jesus, if we are to use a Hebrew-Judaic language, because there isn't a letter "J" in the Hebrew-Judaic alphabet. Be that as it may, with the information I have acquired over time, I am inclined to believed that the man known as the Biblical Jesus never died on the cross.   :-D  :wink:  0:)  :laugh:
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matthew321

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 05:49:32 AM »
OK there is a gap here I do not think you are aware of. The bible was originally written in Hebrew. Then translated to Greek and then to English. There have been a few things lost from that. It would of been better to go from Hebrew to English but that did not happen.
The point is that there is no name Jesus in the Hebrew version. The original version gives the son of god (Jesus) the name Yashua (like Joshua but with a y, "yo-shoe-uh") This is the original name and there is no J in it, since it is original Hebrew.

They also mention this on "secrets of the bible codes revealed" I saw this somewhere and this was also mentioned. Try looking it up.
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LeXtruX

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 03:02:06 PM »
I have to go with matt on this one.
though I do doubt the whole business of Jesus' actions anyway
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rave phillaphia

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2010, 02:05:08 PM »
actually matthew most of the new testament was written in Greek, none of which written in Hebrew so it is relavant. Some was written in Aramaic. Hebrew wasn't the common language then except for the priestly community. It wasn't until after the exile and beginning of the medeval period did the Jews start to pick Hebrew back up and even then they didn't use it as much except in the Eastern Europe area which developed into Yiddish.

I have heard about this idea, but to be clear there were many people who were crucified at this time period. So many in fact that we can find evidence. He may not have been up on a cross but more of a tree (which orthodox communities in Israel believe he was crucified on an olive tree).

The interesting part about the 'spear of destiny' (mind you got that name due to pop culture and movies like Constantine) has a piece that dates to the time of christ. The core of the 'spear' holds an iron nail that dates to that time period. Now the rest of the spear is not from that period whatsoever, and in the medeval times they would add things, same with the shroud, we know that they added pieces on the corners when it would get damaged over time. Just basic wear and tear.

Also yes 'Jesus' is latin for Yashua, also if you translate into english is Joshua. So it is likely that he would have had a name like Yashua or maybe Isa, if his family took up aramaic names because that was their native language NOT HEBREW. Expecially considering that they were the lowest of classes, a carpenter, sacrificing doves at the temple is the lowest of sacrifices, etc...

But we have already known this for years just people are so stuck on the symbolism of Jesus on a Cross with a latin name and the list goes on. Yes there are flaws in the new testament but it is how it is. One can point those flaws out but only looking at specific texts also flaws the view point. So then you have to bring in apaphrical texts and yadi yada. It is a lot of work....

Sorry to burst bubbles about information but sadly this is my field of study. It is ironic because I research pre-Judaism period and have to learn about this time period because that is all people are interested in. They always forget that there are older periods than Jesus. lol geez people.  %*)

And one more thing, It is actually more probable that Jesus did exist because of other famous 'healers' lived in this time period as well. It was a very common thing that was made uncommon when Jesus died and came back from the dead and then accended to heaven....
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MagnusCrane

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 12:45:07 AM »
Well now, it is nice to see we have a lot in common rave phillaphia  in our school of thought. I have to say that I agree with most of what you said. Now I say most because it is getting late and I am tired, so will have to reread what you said thoroughly tomorrow. However, your points are valid, since Aramaic was a more popular language spoken, most like the probability would be that he could have been given a name of that language. As far as the movie Constantine, I never saw the movie. But I will not lie, I originally heard of the spear of destiny from Japanese animation many years ago about 1997. Its called "Spirit Warrior, Peacock King" That was what stuck something for me which lead me to research the spear in the first place. Now as far as the other dude is talking about, I think needs to get his facts straight. Matthew321 said the Bible was written all in Hebrew. OK well according to who, and where does come up with that. What's his proof and how can back that one up or substantiate it? I could continue on and explain how the Bible was once a compilation and was not all revealed at the same time. Over time fragment were put together to form what are calling now the Bible. Please explain Matthew321, in what language was the Books of Moses were written in, and who now have the original Ark of the Covenant? I bet you probably believe that there's only Ten Commandments as well? Good luck buddy. By the way rave phillaphia, if you are an archaeologist, then I would like to speak top you privately, and hopefully and maybe eventually, exchange information. You are by far an interesting person to converse with. I really mean that now. When and where was your last dig? I have one coming in about 6 months. Anyhow, I don't I ever mentioned that Jesus may not have existed. Hell if someone were to make such a claim, it would no different then saying he did exist. The facts still remain as such; the so-called Biblical Jesus live in a time that we of this time were not around for. And we can argue his existence until we are blue in the face. But in reality, none of us has a direct experience of Jesus of his time, and therefore there isn't we can't say for sure he ever existed. All we have are books, scrolls, manuscripts of him, which could have easily been forged and confabulated for a more sinister and twisted purpose. If Jesus really existed, then produce the evidence. Remember, quoting scriptures won't prove anything, it only proves that someone out there wrote a book. Scriptures proves that words in the Bible are really there. But without any of us being in the those ancient times, we can't prove anything.
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rave phillaphia

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 11:28:15 AM »
well matthew is correct that the old testament was primarily written in hebrew. There are a few books that have bits of greek in them. Now if we are talking about oral torah that would have been in greek then translated back into hebrew because it wasn't written down until the medeval period.

I haven't been on an excavation in a while, the last I did was a local dig for a prehistoric native american site. I have never been abroad so I haven't dug anything in the middle east yet. I will someday but for now I just research and look at materials until that changes.
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MagnusCrane

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 05:14:33 PM »
Last dig I was on was in Mexico. My previous Engligh professor started his career out as a Mayanist, which became what he specialized in archaeology.  I spent most of my time in Mexico for diggs and studying. Now as far as what matthew321 was saying, well I am not denying that scriptures were written in Greek and Hebrew, all I am saying is that not all of scriptures was written in that form. Now I cannot attest or say for sure about the Books of Moses (Torah), but if it is true that the actual real Ark of the Covenant is located in Ethiopia, could be at all possible that it may have been written in something beside Hewbrew? Now that is only a question. It is said that Moses was not only a chief architech, but also new how to speak, read, and understand the Egyptian language. And most of the people of the Exodus resided in Egypt. If they were slaves and held bondage of the Egyptians for 400 plus years, and all they did was live to serve they Egyptian masters, when did they learn how to develop the skills of writting, speaking, and reading their own Hebrew language? I just think with a slave system that went on for that long, overtime the Hebrews would most likely been forced to learn the ways of the Egyptians, in order for the masters to communicate with the slaves. So if the Hebrews spent their lives for 400 years as slaves and the Egyptian ways and language was all they knew, then wouldn't it be more plausible +366+6that the Creator reveiled the Laws or Commandments in the manner that the slave mostly understood?
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rave phillaphia

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 06:48:40 PM »
It is ironic to mention that the first compiled Torah wasn't written until the return of the jews from the babylonian exile during the time of Ezra. The earilest writings we have date to around 1000 B.C.E. which is about the time that David and Solomon ruled (Genisis pieces written down in ancient Hebrew, yes I said ancient hebrew, hebrew is not a dead language people lol).

But anywho  :focus: yes it is true that the majority of scripture is not written in greek but actually latin because older documents were lost or destroyed over time.

Where does it say that the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt for 400 years? With all actuality most archaeological evidence prooves against the hebrews being slaves there, but instead a people that were conquered and lived within Egypt.

But who knows I mean Sargon the Akkadian is the real Moses to begin with, which would make more sense if they were ruled by the Babylonians before the Akkadians in the Fertile Creasent. *sorry I know I suck at spelling but I am at working so typing fast*.

But anywho we should get back to topic and discuss about Jesus again lol
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ghazee
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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2011, 09:06:07 PM »
hai, i'm just contributing to this topic based on my point of view. as a muslim in the teaching of islam jesus or isa is actually the same guy. he was not crucified, but was raised by god to heaven. the person who was belief to be crucified was his follower, who god make to resemble jesus due too his betrayel towards jesus.

-i'm still new here. so i'm sorry if course any problem :-)

ViciouslyMe

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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2011, 03:56:52 PM »
I could have sworn there was the belief that the man that betrayed jesus had actually taken his own life.
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Re: Jesus or Isa
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2011, 10:44:01 AM »
In Koran, prophet Mohammad calls Jesus Issa. Jesus is just a "modern" name for Jeshuah.