Author Topic: Meditation Advice  (Read 1364 times)

Moneyman

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Meditation Advice
« on: December 01, 2011, 03:27:47 PM »
Note:
I have read an advice thread on mediation here(http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=9502.0) and I intend to read it carefully. For now, I'm simply asking for your personal thoughts on an experience I had.


I have been trying to learn how to meditate for some time now. It is VERY difficult for me because I have ADHD, the real kind that your born with and not the one that results from lax parenting. It requires a huge amount of effort on my part to concentrate, much more then the average person usually needs to put in. Needless to say, meditation is not something that comes to me easily.

Anyways, I thought I would relate to you guys a recording from a journal I keep on meditation. I feel I had a breakthrough, but I'm having trouble repeating the results. I'll give it to you guys word for word(brackets are after comments), let me know what you guys think about this:

Quote from: Moneyman's Journal
Saturaday Oct. 15 11:50pm:
1:34 - Efforts to concentrate begin. My first priority is to stop daydreaming and to have all focus on reality.

1:36 - I will practice a concentration meditation(just simple concentration, not anything special) for a few minutes.

1:40 - I attempted to focus on nothing and I was partially successful. There was loud music in the background, music I knew. It was difficult to drown out the music at first, I wasn't sure how to go about meditating. Eventually I closed my eyes and tried to focus on not listening to the music. I was breathing irregular and shallow. I focused on the sound of breathing, it was taxing to try and control my breathing. I started to feel something strange, it was calming, it felt like I was hyper-focusing and "letting go" at the same time.

Results during:
-An unusual feeling that is difficult to describe. I've never felt it before, or at least never this strong.

-There was also a strange feeling in my head, it was almost ticklish, yet it felt like my head was tensing up.

-I lost focus of my breathing and could have sworn I stopped altogether, yet I did not feel the urge to breathe. I felt relaxed with my breathing and didn't stress over breathing at all.

-I suddenly felt a sense of stillness. I was calm, alert, relaxed, and energized. It was no longer a struggle to concentrate or control my mind.

-There was a change in emotion as well. It is best described as a feeling of eternity, a feeling like one gets when looking at stars and contemplating the Universe's astronomical size. It was like standing on top of a tall mountain and staring into the distant horizon.

-Time slowed down considerably, I no longer felt rushed, time no longer passed by. If I where to guess, I entered this state a minute or two after I began meditation at 1:36pm. If I remember correctly this state lasted about two minutes. Those two minutes seemed to last as long as five minutes normally feels. The whole session felt longer then four minutes, it felt closer to what ten minutes normally feels like.

Results After:
-A heightened sense of awareness.

-Increased energy both physically and mentally(not astral/esoteric, just regular)

-Decreased anxiety and a sense of clarity and calm.

-Improved concentration, less effort needed to control mind.

-Unusual feeling from session continued after session.

-The world around me felt real, I felt as if I had gone from being half asleep to being fully alert.

-All effects from the session slowly wore off as I wrote this(I hand write this in a book). I still feel a little more relaxed then before, and it has been nearly an hour since.

End Result:

1:36 - Session began.
1:40 - Session ended.
2:34 - Writing finished.

I have just barely grazed the outer fringes of meditation, it took a lot of effort for me to even attempt it. I still need much more practice, especially using the advice I read on that article I mentioned.

One of the physical signs I look for in a successful meditation(or at least, basic control of the mind) is whether or not my sense of time slows down. The more time slows down, the more I'm concentrating and allowing my subconscious to free up my conscious mind(or at least thats my theory).

I should also mention that I take Dexedrine, a stimulant, to help concentration and fight my day time fatigue from insomnia(I can't fall asleep before 1-2am without drugs), just in case they may cause problems with meditation.

What do you guys think? Any advice or things you'd like to point out that I should think about?
"When there is the infinite, there is joy. There is no joy in the finite." - The Chandogya Upanishad

Jake
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2011, 03:40:55 PM »
Just out of interest, is your source of dexy's Adderall? I'm not sure - were I in that position - whether I would be prepared to endure the psychosis-related side effects of (2S)-1-phenylpropan-2-amine. Meditation and dexy's just seem such diametrically opposed "state-of-mind" inducers, Ill be really interested to follow how you progress through this. Good luck with your efforts, keep us posted.

Loki

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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2011, 04:37:31 PM »
In the same sort of unreliable meditation stimulator, a friend was using brainwave stimulation through binaural beats to change his brain frequency.

Alpha waves describe the electrical activity of the brain in the frequency from 8 to 12 hz. That activity occurs naturally in periods of light relaxation or when the eyes are closed but the person is awake.

It is generally believed that alpha waves are dominant brainwaves in people who are in a relaxed or meditative state. It is also present in creative or day dreaming states. It has been also detected also that children tend to stay more time in alpha states than adults.

You can download those generators on the net but be careful there are side effects!
The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist. - Charles Baudelaire (French and monstrous poet).

Jake
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2011, 05:00:04 PM »
I've tried the binaural beats - I can't make claims for them beyond my own, subjective, personal experience, but I certainly found them very relaxing. For example, I too suffer from insomnia, but mine is mainly due to chronic tinnitus I think - the ringing is SO loud when you're alone in the dark - and binaural beats have occasionally got me in to a good state of relaxation for sleep onset.

Moneyman

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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2011, 06:51:30 PM »
Just out of interest, is your source of dexy's Adderall?

No, I take two 15mg Dextroamphetamine sulfate tablets.

Quote
In the same sort of unreliable meditation stimulator, a friend was using brainwave stimulation through binaural beats to change his brain frequency.

I'm a bit confused, I don't recall mentioning a meditation stimulator. Where you referring to the Dexedrine, or something else? The dexedrine isn't for meditation specifically, its just to improve my day to day concentration and combat daytime fatigue. If you think dexedrine will have a noticeable impact on my meditation or anything else important, I can discontinue its use. I've been planning to do so for a while anyway.

As for these brainwave stimulators, what sort of side effects are there? Also, do you think its better to use them or try and master meditation without them?

I should also point out that I take two 100mg Seroquel(Quetiapine) tablets at night to induce sleep. They are anti-psychotics, but my doctor prescribes them off label as a sleeping aid.
"When there is the infinite, there is joy. There is no joy in the finite." - The Chandogya Upanishad

Loki

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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2011, 03:02:40 AM »
No one is interested by the details of your prescription. Tablets are chemical drugs and only your doctor can tell you if its good or not for your health or your activities.
The greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world that he did not exist. - Charles Baudelaire (French and monstrous poet).

AWBrielle
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2011, 12:43:23 PM »
No one is interested by the details of your prescription. Tablets are chemical drugs and only your doctor can tell you if its good or not for your health or your activities.

I respect you as the administrator, Loki, but that was incredibly rude and neither necessary or true. Jake wanted to know, thus he's interested in the details of MM's prescription.
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Nina
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2011, 03:08:58 AM »
incredibly rude and neither necessary

Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?

AWBrielle
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2011, 10:54:08 AM »
incredibly rude and neither necessary

Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?

You should probably read exactly what I was responding to. "No one is interested by the details of your prescription." Yes, incredibly rude and unnecessary. It's important to know what's going on (which is along the lines of what you're saying to me anyway, so we're pretty much on the same page. :P ).
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Nina
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2011, 11:36:02 AM »
so we're pretty much on the same page

True, but also, each of us is different and reacts differently according to something. Sure, maybe a bit rude, but then again, if i had a friend that wanted to do the same and i was worried, id prolly be way more rude than that. Smacks and slaps included *grins*

It is up to Moneyman to respond to that.

Moneyman

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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2011, 04:39:54 PM »
Quote
Think twice on it then Awbrielle. Moneyman wants to quit his therapy cause of meditation. That particular therapy he didnt get over nothing, they are anti-psychotics. Imagine the consequences of not taking those. Wouldnt it be way more rude and VERY unsafe to encourage him in that?

1. Dexedrine is not an anti-psychotic.

2. Quetiapine is, but its only used as a sleeping aid. Its not part of "my therapy"...That sounds to much like...well...therapy  :-P

3. I have been planning to discontinue using these medications to help rule out any effect on my sleeping. Oh and I specifically talked with my doctor about this. I probably should have stated that.

Quote
It is up to Moneyman to respond to that.

To be honest, I avoid conflicts involving "mean words", and if somebody else is bothered by it, I usually just let them handle it. You could say I prefer stealth, but I honestly just don't give a fark unless it becomes a problem(for me :|)

Seeing as how this thread is acquiring some kindling, I'll state clearly that it was more then likely caused by me not specifically stating that the above mentioned information. So just to clarify, I'm discontinuing my non-psychiatric drugs on doctors orders and though Loki's harsh words have crushed my inner soul and made my heart bleed, I'll survive.

In other news...does anybody have ideas to help meditate? Specifically on the "stop thinking" part, which I have quite a bit of trouble with. Is there some sort of ancient riddle I should contemplate...or will "stop thinking" work just fine?
"When there is the infinite, there is joy. There is no joy in the finite." - The Chandogya Upanishad

AWBrielle
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2011, 05:05:26 PM »
All right. I'm not even going to bother talking about how much patronization doesn't help this conversation in any way, shape, or form.

Since this thread is about ADVICE, that's what I'm going to give.

In other news...does anybody have ideas to help meditate? Specifically on the "stop thinking" part, which I have quite a bit of trouble with. Is there some sort of ancient riddle I should contemplate...or will "stop thinking" work just fine?

When people say "stop thinking," it isn't so black-and-white as it's made out to be. To stop thinking is to have progressed to a very high state of meditation. The best way to get there is to begin your meditation in a calm, quiet environment and focus on your breathing. You won't get to the "stop thinking" phase on your first go. Just focus on your breathing and block everything else out. Do this for as long as you can, every day. When you start thinking about something else, stop. And restart. Go back to focusing on your breathing pattern (inhale...exhale...inhale...exhale... and so on and so forth). Some people count, instead, in their heads. That works, too, although counting generates thought more often than not, which is why I recommend focusing on breathing.

Eventually, you can try doing this in environments that are noisy. Just focus on your breathing. See what it does. If it doesn't help at all, go back to practicing on your own.

Edit: I realize I said "Just focus on your breathing" at least four times in one go. Whoops. Modified. You get the idea. :P
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 05:07:10 PM by AWBrielle »
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Jake
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2011, 06:16:22 PM »
Instead of trying to attain an empty mind state, where you "stop thinking", it is perhaps easier to think of meditation as a "calm mind" - you are thinking, but your thoughts are focused and not the usual internal chatter we have going on in our heads. In the technique described by AWBrielle, for example, your focus is only on your breathing: by removing other, unimportant thoughts, you are de-cluttering your mind, not switching it off =)

Moneyman

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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2011, 06:26:10 PM »
Eventually, you can try doing this in environments that are noisy. Just focus on your breathing. See what it does. If it doesn't help at all, go back to practicing on your own.

Edit: I realize I said "Just focus on your breathing" at least four times in one go. Whoops. Modified. You get the idea. :P

Quote
Instead of trying to attain an empty mind state, where you "stop thinking", it is perhaps easier to think of meditation as a "calm mind" - you are thinking, but your thoughts are focused and not the usual internal chatter we have going on in our heads. In the technique described by AWBrielle, for example, your focus is only on your breathing: by removing other, unimportant thoughts, you are de-cluttering your mind, not switching it off =)

So what I'm gathering from this is that the key to emptying your mind isn't by trying to manually switch off everything...but by hyper-focusing on a single element. I think that is the point I was missing from every meditation except the one in my journal, in that one I actually focused on my breathing.

The only problem I have with breathing is that I always seem to be out of breathe when I focus on it. Even though I breathe properly by filling the lower part of my lungs, it feels like something is constricting my chest. I think it might be the way I'm sitting, or possibly the result of me breathing erratically. I might just need practice, but it seems to me I'm doing something wrong.

Also, in my journal I described the effects the meditation had on me. The meditation itself was still quite primitive, and I held the heightened state of mind for only thirty seconds or so. But those thirty seconds had a profound and unexpected effect on me. Its safe to say I've never experienced a feeling like that before, ever. Is this a common occurrence with basic meditation?
"When there is the infinite, there is joy. There is no joy in the finite." - The Chandogya Upanishad

AWBrielle
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Re: Meditation Advice
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2011, 07:52:03 PM »
Absolutely. And if you keep at it, it'll go further. If your breathing is getting erratic, then there are a few options to consider. Contrary to popular belief, breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth will not do anything for you, so I would just breathe one way. Don't force your breath. Just - let go. Let your body take control, and have your mind focus on it. Hope that helps.
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