Monstrous

CryptoZoo => Sightings! => Topic started by: Muerte on May 15, 2009, 09:23:39 PM

Title: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 15, 2009, 09:23:39 PM
  O.K.  This thread is going to address Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect...

  Why do YOU ( points at the crowd ) think we have yet to aquire actual credible physical evidence of it's existance. 

  Why do YOU think that there are not more of these creatures in existance. ( Every creature so far has a tendency to reproduce in accordance to their environment so... )

  I'm sure more questions will come up during this conversation/debate, as I am sure tempers may flare.  Come on people, let the theories fly, but I warn you now, think on what you say before you say it, because I will point out inconsistancies where I find them, just as I expect others to do for me.  ( Oh, and I am sure Moloch, Blowfly, Loki will also do the same )

  So without further ado, BEGIN!

Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 16, 2009, 05:53:02 AM
In a monestery in the alps the apparantly have a piece of bigfoot fur, there has been plenty of dicreditable evidence. tracks, blurry photos, witness accounts. Enough that if we used the same amount of questionable evidence in a murder trial the guy would be strapped to old sparky in no time, The only thing we dont have is a clear photo or a corpse. It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges. The blurry photo thing is the same as why we don't get good UFO shots. We just don't and any that are clear are proven hoaxes or discredited as hoaxes. The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief. One was apparently found once. First thought to be a frozen caveman until the discovery of a gunshot in one eye. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Iceman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Iceman)

I believe in a lot of things but BHMs are still on my "maybe" list.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: rave phillaphia on May 16, 2009, 08:08:43 AM
Its just skeptisim. To prove something you have to diprove it. We are discovering old animals all the time that we had no clue even existed or we thought was extinct. I do know that in North America that there use to be a Giant Ape but went extinct. It wouldn't surprize me that in some remote location if it still existed. Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world. If it wasn't then people would argue and debate in proving it eventually leading back to square one in not being able to. Another problem has already been mentioned in that people trying to create hoaxes so that they can draw attention or make a quick buck (which is annoying for archaeologists because we get discredited and a lot of problems). But yea there is my rant!
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 16, 2009, 09:06:13 AM
Quote
The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief

  So this creature is capabile of rudimentary human thought.  If this were the case would they not also be using tools of some kind, and would there not also be some evidence of habitation in secluded areas such as caves.  To my knowledge there has been no such types of dicovery.  As to buring their dead, well I cann't say that they would have to use tools, but inorder to bury the dead deep enough for us to not discover them, not to mention scavengers which dig for food, well tools would help, and an inteligent animal would be able to figure that out.

Quote
It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges

  So are you saying they have enough inteligence to know that inorder to stay unobserved, they only breed rarely, to purposely keep their numbers low.  I ask not to be ostentatious, but it seems to me that every other organism on earth breeds until they reach the confines of their environment, also, if a certain organism breeds to keep their numbers low, they are asking for extinction.  Normal accidents, viruses, bacteria, environment, lack of food, hell anything can kill something that lives.  Also no other creature I know of purposely limits breeding, so this would put Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... in the extreme minority for intelligence if they do this on purpose.

Quote
Its just skeptisim

  It's skeptisim that causes us to ask questions in search of the truth.  It isn't because we want to not believe, but it is to keep us from believeing blindly, and no offence, but those who prefer to believe blindly are fools.

Quote
Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world

  Proving God exist and proving that Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... exist are not compareable.  I know where you were going with this statement, but God ( if he exist ) does not exist on earth while Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... apparently do.  As you said, we have discovered many things in our short time on earth, but have yet to ferrit out this elusive creature.  Why haven't we, with all of our vaunted technology discovered anything.  Is this creature so much smarter than we are?


  And as for hoaxes.  Yes there have been many.  Some for money, some by the desperate to prove the creatures existance, but so far all proven wrong.  I'll leave off with this thought, and its advice I usually impart on everyone.

  A lie is easier to except for truth, beacause it is what most want to hear, and it comforts, but the truth is harder to except, because it is INESCAPEABLE, because it is REALITY, because it is the TRUTH!
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 16, 2009, 01:22:19 PM
Breeding to keep your numbers low is stupid. Thats why I didnt say they did it on purpose, just coincidentaly. Like pandas, maybe they just don't and seasonal breeding is not uncommon. Maybe they do use tools. Sticks and rocks make perfectly fine tools for alot of animals if used the right way. Dont need a shovel to dig a hole, just a big flat bit of rock/wood.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 16, 2009, 02:05:22 PM
  It's just happy coincidence that their numbers stay low enough to be unobservable then, it's accidental, if you will, with a benificial result.  ( and if it is seasonal, then wouldn't you think that their numbers would be greater by today, even if it were only one infant per couple per year )

  And you said earlier that they might have had neanderthalic inteligence, which used tools, which we have found.  Now they use only sticks and stones.  Wouldn't you think a truely inteigent animal would sooner or later, after so many centuries, develop something jsut slightly better than sticks and stones.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: onishadowolf on May 16, 2009, 06:16:46 PM
Not really, they could be stuck in a dark age type of thinking. If it's not broke, don't fix it. There is still plenty of this planet we have yet to explore.

And who knows, it could be the opposite. It could be they are more intelligent then us and are very good with stealth stuff, and are nudists.

But it is the problem with the searchers, no good trackers or investigators are on the job. So, unless dumb luck kicks, we won't see any evidence. 
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 16, 2009, 06:28:40 PM
Quote
Not really, they could be stuck in a dark age type of thinking

  Even those of the dark ages had tools and religion, which bespeaks of greater than neanderthalic inteligence, so I'm sorry, I cann't really buy this.

Quote
If it's not broke, don't fix it

  This is our current way of thinking, which is our biggest problem wouldn't you say.

Quote
And who knows, it could be the opposite. It could be they are more intelligent then us and are very good with stealth stuff, and are nudists

  Of course they are good at stealth.  They have all our technological advantages to avoid, and of course they are nudist, what need for cloths when they have all that hair?

Quote
But it is the problem with the searchers, no good trackers or investigators are on the job. So, unless dumb luck kicks, we won't see any evidence

  Here I am in total agreement.  A couple of weeks in the woods with a large group of people is no way to hunt for such an elusive creature.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: ravinclaw on May 17, 2009, 01:30:29 PM
Im not sure I believe in bigfoot, but as humans, I believe we think we know a hell of a lot more than we actually do.

Is it possible?
just about anything is if you think about it.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 17, 2009, 01:36:56 PM
Quote
Is it possible?
just about anything is if you think about it

  Finding life on the moon is possible, but we are not here to speak of possibilities.  We are here to figure out why the most capable organism on earth has yet to either difinitively prove or disprove the existance of Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect..., so please, if you have a thought of why shoot.  But again I will give a freindly warning.  Think well on what you say, reason it out completely, because if I find a chink in your armor, I will point it out.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: ravinclaw on May 17, 2009, 02:10:45 PM
How would we disprove it? Its kinda like nessie, we would have to drain the lock to disprove it.
 
To disprove bigfoot we would have cut every tree, explore every cave.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 17, 2009, 02:57:02 PM
Quote
To disprove bigfoot we would have cut every tree, explore every cave.

  Yes that would either prove or disprove the existance of such an organism, but it's not very practical. 

  The purpose of this thread is to try and figure out why.  I came up with two questions at the start of this thread:

  Why do YOU ( points at the crowd ) think we have yet to aquire actual credible physical evidence of it's existance. 

  Why do YOU think that there are not more of these creatures in existance. ( Every creature so far has a tendency to reproduce in accordance to their environment so... )

 
  I was hoping that more questions would arise in reguard to our inability to solve this age old quest, but alas, there are no questions but mine.  Please, do not make me answer my own questions, because once you start answering yourself, people see you as mentally deficient.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 20, 2009, 11:00:43 AM
Well lets hear your theory Meurte, since you seem to sh*t on everyone elses theories yours must be near enough bullet proof and we can build from that.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on May 20, 2009, 12:35:15 PM
Well, before Mu goes and bares his soul/theory for all to see... Allow me:

Quote
The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief

  So this creature is capabile of rudimentary human thought.  If this were the case would they not also be using tools of some kind, and would there not also be some evidence of habitation in secluded areas such as caves.  To my knowledge there has been no such types of dicovery.  As to buring their dead, well I cann't say that they would have to use tools, but inorder to bury the dead deep enough for us to not discover them, not to mention scavengers which dig for food, well tools would help, and an inteligent animal would be able to figure that out.

Quote
It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges

  So are you saying they have enough inteligence to know that inorder to stay unobserved, they only breed rarely, to purposely keep their numbers low.  I ask not to be ostentatious, but it seems to me that every other organism on earth breeds until they reach the confines of their environment, also, if a certain organism breeds to keep their numbers low, they are asking for extinction.  Normal accidents, viruses, bacteria, environment, lack of food, hell anything can kill something that lives.  Also no other creature I know of purposely limits breeding, so this would put Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... in the extreme minority for intelligence if they do this on purpose.

Quote
Its just skeptisim

  It's skeptisim that causes us to ask questions in search of the truth.  It isn't because we want to not believe, but it is to keep us from believeing blindly, and no offence, but those who prefer to believe blindly are fools.

Quote
Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world

  Proving God exist and proving that Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... exist are not compareable.  I know where you were going with this statement, but God ( if he exist ) does not exist on earth while Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... apparently do.  As you said, we have discovered many things in our short time on earth, but have yet to ferrit out this elusive creature.  Why haven't we, with all of our vaunted technology discovered anything.  Is this creature so much smarter than we are?
[/quote]

I will point out merely one thing... something that should settle the debate of why we have had no previous encounters with this beast before.

In Africa, not so long ago, a previously unknown(to outsiders) population of lowland gorillas was discovered residing in the mountains of the Congo region... (links below). The locals told white scientists about them for decades, but the scientists never found evidence of them, and never got any pictures, just anecdotal heresay from local tribesman, as I've said just now.

Then, suddenly, voila, there they were, and the population of known gorillas in the wild grew substantially overnight. Now, in this thred we are discussing the possibility that another species of Great Ape resides in the americas and Eurasia, and has heretofore never been clearly photographed nor has anyone been able to get hold of a specimen for taxidermological examination.

so, before anyone else start bad mouthing, crushing, or generally sneering in anyone's direction again, I am going to ask all participants to remember:

1) Science does not know everything. If it did, then it would be God, and would have proven its own existence, making that argument null and void as well as this one.

2) YOU do not know everything. If you did, then you would be God, and would hence have to prove your existence to us, and hence this discussion would be moot until that one was resolved.

Links:

http://www.gorillas.org/125000_gorillas_discovered (http://www.gorillas.org/125000_gorillas_discovered)

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/08/05/congo.gorillas/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/08/05/congo.gorillas/index.html)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26016923/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26016923/)
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 20, 2009, 01:03:46 PM
I never knew abou the gorillas. That is actualy fascinating. The whole thing could just be down to plain luck. We haven't proved they exist just because we havn't YET. Everything is discovered eventualy so the only reason we havn't found one is just because we havn't. Same reason I have yet to find a pair of trousers that give me support and comfort in all the right places. Its out there, we just haven't been in the right place at the right time.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on May 20, 2009, 01:35:36 PM
It has been my goal for nearly twenty years to learn everything I possibly can about everything I possibly can. So expect lots of posts like this one from me.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 20, 2009, 01:44:25 PM
It has been my goal for nearly twenty years to learn everything I possibly can about everything I possibly can. So expect lots of posts like this one from me.

Me too. Just not as long as you have. lol.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 20, 2009, 08:21:48 PM
Well lets hear your theory Meurte, since you seem to sh*t on everyone elses theories yours must be near enough bullet proof and we can build from that.

  It is not my intention to s**t on anyones theory Angelus, and I have made many attempts to sooth any hurt feeling I cause by cross examing those theories.
 
  Now if I had a good solid theory in answer to my own questions, do you think I would be looking for your answers, or would I be out there collecting the evidence?  I have sat and turned many possibilities over and over in my head, and I have been just as critical of my own theories as I have been of others, so please, don't feel singled out.  I simply cann't accept a theory on the surface, I have to disect it and see if it works.

  Lets see to my questions anyways.

  Question one:  Because there are not enough of the species to leave any trail that can be followed.  But if this were so, then why are there so few?  Well lets look at question two.

  Question Two:  They do not breed seasonally.  Their breeding pattern might ( notice here that I will stress the word might ) might occure every five years or so.   ( How are we to know?  We don't, because we are lacking proper evidence )  No one knows the exact cycle of breeding for such a creature, not even me.  Now, lets say we give it 5 years or so before they hit maturity ( yes I'm leading into genetics ), that would make it difficult to expand their reign over the earth wouldn't you say.  Lets also take into consideration that they could produce more male offspring than female ( and since we all agree that the creature in mamilian, let's not bring the lizards/amphibians changing sex argument into this ), now that would complicate things wouldn't it?  I'll go you one further, what if the majority of the males were born sterile?  Could it be possible?  All of these things the creature would have no control over, it just would be.

  I'm going to leave it there, and let you tear it apart.  In fact I welcome it, as it will most likely cause me to look at it again from a different point of veiw.  I don't mind someone proving me wrong.

  And thank you Moloch, but I rather enjoy exposing myself, I have nothing to hide, and can only become better/stronger by standing tall for all to see.  I sherk not from any type of challenge.


Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 21, 2009, 03:21:30 PM
My appologies Muerte. I have read over my post and I came across as quite a penis.  :focus:
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: onishadowolf on May 21, 2009, 04:00:14 PM
The small groups I agree with; hell some of us couldn't our ass's, if they weren't attached already.

Seasonal breeding I agree and even the higher male population bit.

But, the a percentage being born sterile, no. At survival standpoint that is nonefficent. On a evolutionary standpoint that would be ill fitting. There are some species that evolved population control type traits. But never any absence of equipment, except by a quirk.  Oh, and we humans are in the category of species that take awhile to sexually mature. And we still riegn, which is debatable.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on May 21, 2009, 05:52:01 PM
Actually, Muerte, I'll go you one better...

Since we all agree that the creature is mammalian in origin, and we can all agree that it is at least humanoid in appearance, making it an ape, and a Great Ape at that - sexual maturity would actually occur at about eight to ten years (Link: http://michellegilders.hosting4less.com/michellegilders/greatapelife.html (http://michellegilders.hosting4less.com/michellegilders/greatapelife.html)) Now, eight years is a long time to live in the wild with no shelter, clean water, or McDonalds on the corner. Furthermore, Man only "reigns" because we're better equipped to kill what doesn't kill us first, and because of modern medicine.

How many of you have gone camping for a weekend(Muerte feel free to speak up here, since you have survival training.)? I'm willing to bet that if you went camping, you brought along fire, food, clean water, a first aid kit, and maybe some form of electronic long distance communication. the Great Apes, and I include Big Foot here, have none of these things! How long would you survive in the wild without them? A week? A month perhaps? Wild animals are suited to their environment, but even they get sick, and get injured. Eight years folks, eight years before you can get laid for the first time. And here we're assuming that mating is also a free for all, and not decided by contests or hierarchy, as some animals do these things. We're also assuming that for each mating there is at least one resulting offspring. Now, factor in the food problem, and clean water. In the wild, population is generally controlled in two ways - predation, and abundance or shortage of food. Adult apes would be a slightly difficult target; I say this because if a Chimpanzee can use a blade of grass to get food, then I'm sure Big Foot can figure out a way to defend itself against predators. The young of these apes though, would be a tantalizing target for bears, wolves, wolverines, and the like. So, let's say you have a breeding age population of five hundred pairs, and those pairs each has at least one child, that's a total of one thousand five hundred apes. Now, generally speaking, the vast majority of young are lost to predation and illness. I'll be generous to the bastards though, and say half survive. That's still a population of only one thousand two hundred and fifty apes, and that's just for year one for the young ones - living in ranges that contain millions of acres of forest.

Now, can any of you boys and girls see just how and why a population of Great Apes, living in back country that even seasoned professional hunters, trappers, and explorers don't venture into without extensive preparation; can survive undetected, with a small population - especially if they don't use fire?
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 21, 2009, 05:57:47 PM
Actualy if there are 500 pairs and each pair has 1 child thats 1500 apes/bigfoot/yeti/sasquach/etc. Not to nitpic. lol
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: onishadowolf on May 21, 2009, 07:00:39 PM
Isn't there a certain ratio needed to be kept for a vaible gene pool. You know to keep down inbreeding.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 21, 2009, 08:24:03 PM
  Thankyou Moloch, I knew I could rely on you to fill in the gaps I left, though I was hoping that others would make the attempt.  And yes I do have survival skills, which I practice at least once a year.

  As for a population for a viable gene pool, well if there wasn't a viable gene pool, would not the the creatures population slowly dwindle to nothing?  That is honestly what I think is happening here, that due to inability to properly hold up population, the apes/bigfoot/yeti/sasquach/etc are slowly, but inevitable, disappearing completely from the face of the earth.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: onishadowolf on May 21, 2009, 08:41:11 PM
I'm going to start making picket signs and posters, that say " Save Big Foot, his too dumb to know he's screwing his first cousin and sister and not his second and third cousins!"

Anybody want one, come on you know want to.
We'll make a stand in front of congress or the white house, whoever doesn't hose us. 
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on May 22, 2009, 05:50:36 AM
Going into extinction is a good theory but still doesnt explain why we have not found remains, unless they are burying the dead or canibalising them. They could be put on the endangered species list, in my country we do actualy have the Loch Ness Monster on the endangered species list. It is illegal to intend any form of harm to it but not to hunt it in the catch and return sense.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: mistress on May 22, 2009, 09:13:25 AM
idk about seasonal breeding, some thrive off the sexual passions and thats how they feed, and if we have seasonal breeding than that would mean people would fight over certain people and that would jus be a mess :)
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 22, 2009, 11:02:56 AM
Quote
canibalising them

  Now that would make sence wouldn't it?  Yes, secretely I think that could be a possibility, as there are animals, to include primates, which do perform canabilism, and when they are done with a corpse, well theres not much left to identify.

Misteress

Quote
some thrive off the sexual passions and thats how they feed

  How do you know this?  I had no idea people have actually observed these creatures in such a way.  Is there anything else you are aware of that you can share?  ( I want eveyone to knotice the light ribbing tone that I stress these questions with, yes I am joking )  But seriousely, how did you come by this information.  Web site, book, person to person conversation.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: mistress on May 22, 2009, 11:10:11 AM
actually the web i jus googled it lol idk if its true but i jus thought i throw that out there
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 22, 2009, 11:14:48 AM
actually the web i jus googled it lol idk if its true but i jus thought i throw that out there

  As I thought,  can you give me the site, or what you typed into google?  I'd like to read this also, anything new.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: mistress on May 22, 2009, 11:22:01 AM
sure let me try to find it again
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: mistress on May 22, 2009, 11:28:07 AM
jus look under the animals and what not and put in sexual desires, im seraching as well for this website, it was demonic but i wouldnt say that idk if these facts are true but there was alot of images and information on there
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on May 22, 2009, 06:28:14 PM
So, let's say you have a breeding age population of five hundred pairs, and those pairs each has at least one child, that's a total of one thousand five hundred apes. Now, generally speaking, the vast majority of young are lost to predation and illness. I'll be generous to the bastards though, and say half survive. That's still a population of only one thousand two hundred and fifty apes

We begin with 1,000 = 500 pairs

We add in each child referenced above = 500

This gives us 1,500

Now we subtract out the 50% of those children who did NOT survive = 250

This gives us a grand total of 1,250 live specimens.

Make damn sure you have your s**t right before you nitpick. You know damn well I read and reread each post before leaving it alone. This is why you rarely find errors in anything I write.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 23, 2009, 01:32:53 PM
  http://www.monstrous.com/sightings/mcdowell_man_bigfoot_among_us_.html (http://www.monstrous.com/sightings/mcdowell_man_bigfoot_among_us_.html)

  I seen this and had to post it.  Alls I can say is that I would like to beat this idiot silly for at least not recording the baby before returning it to the woods, also he should have taken hair and nail samples, Q tips for saliva samples ( stored in zip lock bags or tupperware immediately after ).  I also wonder why there have been no excursion to his neck of the woods, if they are as prevelant as he claims, then that area is a plethora of physical evidence.  I myself will reread this article, and possibly purchase the refered to book, to see if I can not find out where this area is.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on May 23, 2009, 06:30:04 PM
EDIT: Removed location information after second thoughts.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 23, 2009, 06:46:57 PM
 
Quote
EDIT: Removed location information after second thoughts.

  Probably a good idea.

  A: no need to get a bunch of city idiots going there to scare wildlife, destroy a lot of natural habitat, and piss the colony off.

  B: Any real information is something that should be searched for.

  C: It will make a great vacation area for me, and an even better one if I'm not surrounded by people.  Just me, my back pack, and a plethora of evidence to  collect.

 
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 23, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
  Well I was right, it will make an excellent vacation spot, as it is in the middle of nowhere.  Miles upon miles of woods and mountains, oh the years will pass by all the more slowly now. ( I still have to finish my commitment to the Air Force, A project like this will require more than a few weeks to accomplish after all. )
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Loki on May 29, 2009, 05:14:20 PM
First, please make a distinction between the different species of cryptid hominids. The Yeti might be hidden in the caves of the Himalaya but I really doubt the one you call Bigfoot is still active in the forests of North America, unless he is got superpowers like invisibility or teleportation to run away from humans. Moreover, most sightings including the infamous Patterson's now appeared to be fake.

When you see that THE REFERENCE is the "famous" cryptozoologist Loren Coleman, a man that has spent most of his life on an armchair or giving speech to a gullible audience of idiots, you have the same reaction as for the lizard men that are supposed to control our leaders and inseminate our females, you just laugh  *<:)

But maybe Bigfoot is a lizard, after all, a furry lizard  :doh:
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Milanee on May 30, 2009, 05:25:55 AM
But that is just your PERSONAL opinion, meaning its worth exactly the same as the ones of the man you speak about.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Loki on May 30, 2009, 10:33:55 AM
I have no opinion about it but beliefs - now here is more foolish (every week brings its share):

http://blogsquatcher.blogspot.com/2009/05/henry-franzoni-and-bigfoots-puzzling.html (http://blogsquatcher.blogspot.com/2009/05/henry-franzoni-and-bigfoots-puzzling.html)

"Franzoni believes that we are not engaged in a search for another species of animal, but in an “intelligence operation” with a being of high intelligence. He believes that bigfoot possesses the ability to harness and manipulate energy. As he outlines in his book, In the Spirit of Seatco, his ideas take their root in 19th and early 20th century science, taking seriously the idea that there is a life force, such as the vitalists did. Following Tesla, he believes that there is an extra dimension that remains unseen and largely undetected (although Tesla argued that the effects of the extra dimension could be seen in the resonant rise of a tesla coil), and this dimension is involved in the creation and sustenance of life force. (This theory, it seems to me, is not unlike that described by James Beichler in his recent book To Die For.) This connection to another dimension gives bigfoot what Henry calls “puzzling powers.” He made a list of these from Indian cultural wisdom:

    1) They are invisible most of the time
    2) They are in the water sometimes
    3) They are jokers
    4) They can control you, literally take over your body and make it do things.
    They are telepathic, very, very telepathic. Some of them can communicate. "
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on May 30, 2009, 01:03:35 PM
Quote
First, please make a distinction between the different species of cryptid hominids

  Sorry about that, but at this point I do not wish to loose my audience, as most assosiate them as being near the same entity.  First I get them talking, get them therorizing, then, when the basics are understood, we can become much more specific.  Start with the small stuff, end with the big picture.

  And I agree with you Loïc, there are always newer more imaginative therories out there everyday.  While I am not going to totally rule out a transdimesional door between our world and anouther, I doubt old Hairy is responsible for it.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Milanee on June 05, 2009, 06:33:56 AM
What is the difference between opinion and belief then actually?
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on June 05, 2009, 07:07:30 PM
What is the difference between opinion and belief then actually?

About one hundred IQ points.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Milanee on June 06, 2009, 02:59:49 AM
Im not sure that is necessarily the truth, cause it would imply that smart people dont believe, and stupid ones dont have opinion, which is, sadly, not true.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: markus on June 06, 2009, 04:26:14 AM
Mo has 2 of the same post


Reason: one of them was in the editors room and I merged it back with this topic, instead of deleting MoMo's post
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on June 06, 2009, 06:24:25 AM
Im not sure that is necessarily the truth, cause it would imply that smart people dont believe, and stupid ones dont have opinion, which is, sadly, not true.

Intelligent people believe in their opinions because they are intelligent, and less likely to simply make things up to fit their world-view. Unintelligent people believe their opinions to be true simply because they say they are true.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Milanee on June 06, 2009, 07:16:39 AM
But still, belief is a belief, and opinion is an opinion. You may have an opinion about religions, but you either believe in God or not.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on June 06, 2009, 07:50:02 AM
But still, belief is a belief, and opinion is an opinion. You may have an opinion about religions, but you either believe in God or not.

  And that is a perfect example of Molochs definition. 
 
  Smart people tend to believe in thier opinion because of what they see, feel, hear, ect.., they have no need to look to others for an explination, because they work things out for themselves to get an answer.  They have fact to back up their opinion, its that cut and dry.
 
  The less inteligent are unable to come to conclusions on their own,  so they develop opinions based on what others have said, thought, or done, basically everything from here say.  There is no fact behind it, just their belief.

  In conclusion someone with an opinion will normally come forward and say " I think this because of so and so " and then produce some form of undeniable proof, while someone with an opinion simply says " I think this because I think it is true, proof?  No I really don't have any, but it's true anyways. "


I'm going to quote you real quick
Quote
you either believe in God or not

  Now what proof do you have that It exist ( I do not say He, for if It exist, then It has no sex )?  And do not grab the holy book and wave it around, that was written by man.  Do not say look around you, because the things I see around me can be explained by science, physical proof.  Do not try that " If he didn't create us, then how are we here? " question either.  How are we here?  A very fortunate accident thats how, a chance meeting of complex steps which began our evolution, nothing more.  Speaking of chance meetings let's go  :focus: now.  If you wish to continue this discussion Milanee, please start a thread in Idle, or Religions, Cults, and Sects, and I will be happy to debate with you to your hearts content, or discontent, whichever it may be.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Milanee on June 06, 2009, 08:48:15 AM
Im not exactly sure why you are arguing with me on this, cause we are basically agreeing on the matter. There is no need to attack nor defend here, I simply stated my OPINION, same as you or Moloch did.

If you want quarrels about God, you certainly picked a wrong person. Im not here to discus things that should be personal anyway.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on June 06, 2009, 09:06:03 AM
  My object is not to quarrel, but to debate, as it has ever been.  Quarrels serve no purpose, but debates often lead to a broadening of perspective.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on June 06, 2009, 11:56:14 AM
  My object is not to quarrel, but to debate, as it has ever been.  Quarrels serve no purpose, but debates often lead to a broadening of perspective.

Here, here! Well said, sir; as was your earlier statement.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on June 07, 2009, 07:13:48 PM
I learned how to handle the question of physical evidence of a god. When someone asks you to prove that there is a god you respond with "I can't, but I will submit if you can provide me with the 100% evidence of his non existance." The problem with the supernatural is when it is discovered and proven it is no longer supernatural but natural. The same goes for the devine. If proven it will lead to the natural explanation of god and then he (I use he for lack of a better fitting word) is no longer devine.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on June 07, 2009, 07:30:58 PM
Quote
"I can't, but I will submit if you can provide me with the 100% evidence of his non existance."

  Excellent, Angelus, Excellent!  That, believe it or not, is the exact responce I was looking for. ( Yes, I have heard it said exctly before, and have had quite a few indepth discussions with those who have said it)  Praise be for the ray of light in which true understanding abounds.  No one can prove or disprove the actual exsistance of something we can not see or explain.  I do, myself, believe in a higher power, but that's a story for anouther thread.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Angelus on June 07, 2009, 07:37:50 PM
I feel special. Give me a feckin cookie. lol
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Moloch on June 07, 2009, 07:47:08 PM
Of course I exist! Why was there ever any doubt?  *<:)
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on June 07, 2009, 09:53:07 PM
I feel special. Give me a feckin cookie. lol

  Sure you wouldn't like a steak instead?   :evil:
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Kadesh on August 30, 2009, 08:11:08 PM
 Why hasn't anyone gotten proof of any of those? Could it be because anyone truly capable of tracking them and getting such proof believes that some things are just best left alone?


 And as for the low numbers... I don't think they're doing it on purpose, but could it be as with other things in nature... man has just taken over more and more... invaded more and more of their space and as a result they are pushed into more dangerous territory, they get hurt more, they die.

 Could the answers be that simple? Who's to say...
 
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Muerte on September 03, 2009, 12:13:17 PM
Why hasn't anyone gotten proof of any of those? Could it be because anyone truly capable of tracking them and getting such proof believes that some things are just best left alone?


 And as for the low numbers... I don't think they're doing it on purpose, but could it be as with other things in nature... man has just taken over more and more... invaded more and more of their space and as a result they are pushed into more dangerous territory, they get hurt more, they die.

 Could the answers be that simple? Who's to say...
 

  Kadesh with the first part you hit upon my own feelings exactly.  YES!  It is possible that some have actual proof, but the proof they have they got for themselves.  It is what I plan on doing myself.  I just want my curiosity satisfied, but if I do find anything, you can bet money I am not going to share it with society as a whole.  If I did that then old Harry would have no chances at all left.  The scientific community would come down on him like a hammer.

  As for the second part, YES again, it could be that simple, after all, in the game of life, the simpliest answers are often closer to the truth than most people realize.
Title: Re: Time to stir the pot
Post by: Kadesh on September 03, 2009, 12:16:19 PM
 I search for proof for the same reason. Just for me to know about. There are very very few select people I'd share it with, but I'd never reveal anything to the 'world'.