Author Topic: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893  (Read 3762 times)

bearserkar

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Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« on: January 09, 2011, 09:43:46 AM »
I found this book secret commonwealth by Robert Kirk written in 1691.
You can see the book

http://www.sacred-text.com/neu/celt/sce/

I downloaded it a few years ago it is a good read, but a hard read too.
Bear
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Devious Viper
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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2011, 11:30:06 AM »
You need to fix the link - it should be

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/celt/sce/index.htm

bearserkar

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2011, 12:08:29 PM »
Why thank you.
Bear
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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2011, 12:20:06 PM »
Interesting factoid 1: Rev. Kirk (he was an Episcopalian minister) was the 7th son of a 7th son.

Interesting factoid 2: The tale of Rev. Kirk and the Unseelie Court is going into production...

"It is the 17th Century, Scotland has been set on fire by the zealous witch hunts that have torn apart towns and communities as residents attempt to purge the evil that they perceive lies within their midst.

In the small town of Aberfoyle REVEREND ROBERT KIRK has just put the finishing touches to a scholarly work on the inhabitants of the secret world of fairies and goblins. He has worked long and hard on this book, talking to outcasts and seers, risking his faith, reputation and sanity. Kirk plans to use the knowledge he has compiled to enter ‘The Secret Commonwealth’ in search of his dead wife and child whom he believes are trapped, their souls unable to enter Heaven..."

Will be directed by Michael Ferns, written by David Guest and produced by Guest and Ferns. Expect it to be shot entirely on location in the Scottish Highlands.  Could be worth a look.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 12:26:12 PM by Devious Viper »

bearserkar

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2011, 12:27:22 PM »
I downloaded it a couple of years ago and have read it thru a few times. I had a time learning the Scottish Gaelic. I am not that good of a linguist.
Bear
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onishadowolf

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2011, 10:23:30 PM »
By far, a very interesting read. A little tedious to translate as reading, but nothing that can't be handled.
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Angelus

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2011, 03:00:36 AM »
I downloaded it a couple of years ago and have read it thru a few times. I had a time learning the Scottish Gaelic. I am not that good of a linguist.

It's not written in Gaelic. It's in English. it never was written in Gaelic.


By far, a very interesting read. A little tedious to translate as reading, but nothing that can't be handled.

What translating? Its in English. Just an older form.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Alexander Pope.

onishadowolf

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2011, 03:44:27 AM »
Exactly, translating it to my English lol

It's not hard, I do it in my head as I read it.

Exampe; "Veƒƒels. Such Drags goe under the name of Brownies. When we have plenty, they have Scarcity at their Homes; and on the contrarie (for they are empowred to catch as much Prey everywhere as they pleaƒe,) there Robberies notwithƒtanding "" Putting s in place of the f for the long S's.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 03:50:47 AM by onishadowolf »
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bearserkar

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »
Okay if it is not english, where can I find Sleagh Maith in my websters dictionary? Or how about this one Tabhaisver? How about Sithbhruaich? I had to go get a remedial Scottish Gaelic Dictionary to confirm that what was being said was in fact the right words. I still can not pronounce these words worth a flip but I do know it now when I see it now.

Learned long ago when you learn a word or phrase in a forgein toungue it is best to find out the facts before you use them. You could offend the wrong person and end up in a world of trouble.
Bear
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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2011, 01:26:29 PM »
Okay if it is not english, where can I find Sleagh Maith in my websters dictionary? Or how about this one Tabhaisver? How about Sithbhruaich? I had to go get a remedial Scottish Gaelic Dictionary to confirm that what was being said was in fact the right words. I still can not pronounce these words worth a flip but I do know it now when I see it now.

Learned long ago when you learn a word or phrase in a forgein toungue it is best to find out the facts before you use them. You could offend the wrong person and end up in a world of trouble.

This is the problem faced by everyone reading antiquarian books, of course =/ Fortunately, The Secret Commonwealth is dry enough not to have its flow broken up by quickly consulting a dictionary or Google, but, yes, it can be a real pain when it breaks your understanding of a passage.

The Secret Commonwealth
was put on the stage in Scotland last year I believe, using the original dialect and period music. It included the legend of Kirk's death, too, which allegedly goes like this:

"...he went out in his nightshirt and was supposed to have died of a heart attack on the Doon Hill. Not long after his funeral, he appeared to a cousin and said that he was not dead, but ‘stolen’. He could only be reclaimed from the Faery Realm if – at his baby son’s christening– a dagger was thrown over his head when he appeared. He duly materialized, but the cousin was so disturbed by the vision that he forgot to throw the knife. After Kirk’s death, his eldest son, Colin, an Edinburgh lawyer, observed that ‘father has gone to his own kind’ and as late as 1978 local people were said to be aware of his presence at certain places around Aberfoyle."

One critic - reflecting your frustration with the language - said of the play:

"Why should you go to see a play about a seventeenth century Scottish minister in a remote Highland village? Well – because it isn’t about those things, but about what lies beyond them on the edges, the margins, where languages, cultures and traditions collide and melt, reality isn’t reliable and nothing is what it seems..."

Angelus

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2011, 02:27:18 PM »
Okay if it is not english, where can I find Sleagh Maith in my websters dictionary? Or how about this one Tabhaisver? How about Sithbhruaich? I had to go get a remedial Scottish Gaelic Dictionary to confirm that what was being said was in fact the right words. I still can not pronounce these words worth a flip but I do know it now when I see it now.

Learned long ago when you learn a word or phrase in a forgein toungue it is best to find out the facts before you use them. You could offend the wrong person and end up in a world of trouble.

Due to the fact that it is Scottish, certain words have Scottish Gaelic routs. And may not be recognised outside of Scotland. Americans, English and other English speaking comunities have words that originate from other older languages from the area. Only afew words are from Gaelic, so the book still hold little translation.

PS. Websters is an American English dictionary. Since the words you look for are Scottish the wouldn't be in there. Bust some may be in a Brittish English dictionary, from Britain, where England is, where they invented the language.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 02:34:06 PM by Angelus »
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bearserkar

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2011, 05:02:44 PM »
I will accept that as a compliment from you.
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Angelus

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2011, 05:11:55 PM »
I don't know why. It was neither compliment nor insult. It was fact.
Fools rush in where angels fear to tread. Alexander Pope.

bearserkar

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 04:06:19 PM »
I thanked you because I am an American in the United States of America, I speak American English. That is why I use a websters dictionary. I will accept anything you say to me from this moment on as a compliment because it seems you are better educated than I.  Maybe it is some since of nationalism to the crown. In what I am guessing maybe you are better than me. So once again I do thank you for putting me the commoner "me" in his place.  So I will go back now to communal grooming and foraging.
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Ryobi

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Re: Secret Commonwealth 1691-1893
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 11:51:39 PM »
Bro, Angelus was agreeing with you (which neither of you seemed to notice) and you have a strange idea of what a compliment is.

Just saying, a compliment is a way of expressing praise. It's not the same as being acknowledged or receiving a comment or response from someone you think is better than you. As far as I know that's usually referred to as, well, a comment or for that matter response...

As for the work in question, very interesting, anyone else notice that after a while your brain automatically substitutes ff's for s's?
When I hear somebody sigh, "Life is hard," I am always tempted to ask, "Compared to what?"