[Muerte]

  O.K.  This thread is going to address Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect...

  Why do YOU ( points at the crowd ) think we have yet to aquire actual credible physical evidence of it's existance. 

  Why do YOU think that there are not more of these creatures in existance. ( Every creature so far has a tendency to reproduce in accordance to their environment so... )

  I'm sure more questions will come up during this conversation/debate, as I am sure tempers may flare.  Come on people, let the theories fly, but I warn you now, think on what you say before you say it, because I will point out inconsistancies where I find them, just as I expect others to do for me.  ( Oh, and I am sure Moloch, Blowfly, Loki will also do the same )

  So without further ado, BEGIN!

[Angelus]

In a monestery in the alps the apparantly have a piece of bigfoot fur, there has been plenty of dicreditable evidence. tracks, blurry photos, witness accounts. Enough that if we used the same amount of questionable evidence in a murder trial the guy would be strapped to old sparky in no time, The only thing we dont have is a clear photo or a corpse. It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges. The blurry photo thing is the same as why we don't get good UFO shots. We just don't and any that are clear are proven hoaxes or discredited as hoaxes. The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief. One was apparently found once. First thought to be a frozen caveman until the discovery of a gunshot in one eye. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Iceman

I believe in a lot of things but BHMs are still on my "maybe" list.

[rave phillaphia]

Its just skeptisim. To prove something you have to diprove it. We are discovering old animals all the time that we had no clue even existed or we thought was extinct. I do know that in North America that there use to be a Giant Ape but went extinct. It wouldn't surprize me that in some remote location if it still existed. Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world. If it wasn't then people would argue and debate in proving it eventually leading back to square one in not being able to. Another problem has already been mentioned in that people trying to create hoaxes so that they can draw attention or make a quick buck (which is annoying for archaeologists because we get discredited and a lot of problems). But yea there is my rant!

[Muerte]

The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief

  So this creature is capabile of rudimentary human thought.  If this were the case would they not also be using tools of some kind, and would there not also be some evidence of habitation in secluded areas such as caves.  To my knowledge there has been no such types of dicovery.  As to buring their dead, well I cann't say that they would have to use tools, but inorder to bury the dead deep enough for us to not discover them, not to mention scavengers which dig for food, well tools would help, and an inteligent animal would be able to figure that out.

It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges

  So are you saying they have enough inteligence to know that inorder to stay unobserved, they only breed rarely, to purposely keep their numbers low.  I ask not to be ostentatious, but it seems to me that every other organism on earth breeds until they reach the confines of their environment, also, if a certain organism breeds to keep their numbers low, they are asking for extinction.  Normal accidents, viruses, bacteria, environment, lack of food, hell anything can kill something that lives.  Also no other creature I know of purposely limits breeding, so this would put Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... in the extreme minority for intelligence if they do this on purpose.

Its just skeptisim

  It's skeptisim that causes us to ask questions in search of the truth.  It isn't because we want to not believe, but it is to keep us from believeing blindly, and no offence, but those who prefer to believe blindly are fools.

Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world

  Proving God exist and proving that Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... exist are not compareable.  I know where you were going with this statement, but God ( if he exist ) does not exist on earth while Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... apparently do.  As you said, we have discovered many things in our short time on earth, but have yet to ferrit out this elusive creature.  Why haven't we, with all of our vaunted technology discovered anything.  Is this creature so much smarter than we are?


  And as for hoaxes.  Yes there have been many.  Some for money, some by the desperate to prove the creatures existance, but so far all proven wrong.  I'll leave off with this thought, and its advice I usually impart on everyone.

  A lie is easier to except for truth, beacause it is what most want to hear, and it comforts, but the truth is harder to except, because it is INESCAPEABLE, because it is REALITY, because it is the TRUTH!

[Angelus]

Breeding to keep your numbers low is stupid. Thats why I didnt say they did it on purpose, just coincidentaly. Like pandas, maybe they just don't and seasonal breeding is not uncommon. Maybe they do use tools. Sticks and rocks make perfectly fine tools for alot of animals if used the right way. Dont need a shovel to dig a hole, just a big flat bit of rock/wood.

[Muerte]

  It's just happy coincidence that their numbers stay low enough to be unobservable then, it's accidental, if you will, with a benificial result.  ( and if it is seasonal, then wouldn't you think that their numbers would be greater by today, even if it were only one infant per couple per year )

  And you said earlier that they might have had neanderthalic inteligence, which used tools, which we have found.  Now they use only sticks and stones.  Wouldn't you think a truely inteigent animal would sooner or later, after so many centuries, develop something jsut slightly better than sticks and stones.

[onishadowolf]

Not really, they could be stuck in a dark age type of thinking. If it's not broke, don't fix it. There is still plenty of this planet we have yet to explore.

And who knows, it could be the opposite. It could be they are more intelligent then us and are very good with stealth stuff, and are nudists.

But it is the problem with the searchers, no good trackers or investigators are on the job. So, unless dumb luck kicks, we won't see any evidence. 

[Muerte]

Not really, they could be stuck in a dark age type of thinking

  Even those of the dark ages had tools and religion, which bespeaks of greater than neanderthalic inteligence, so I'm sorry, I cann't really buy this.

If it's not broke, don't fix it

  This is our current way of thinking, which is our biggest problem wouldn't you say.

And who knows, it could be the opposite. It could be they are more intelligent then us and are very good with stealth stuff, and are nudists

  Of course they are good at stealth.  They have all our technological advantages to avoid, and of course they are nudist, what need for cloths when they have all that hair?

But it is the problem with the searchers, no good trackers or investigators are on the job. So, unless dumb luck kicks, we won't see any evidence

  Here I am in total agreement.  A couple of weeks in the woods with a large group of people is no way to hunt for such an elusive creature.

[ravinclaw]

Im not sure I believe in bigfoot, but as humans, I believe we think we know a hell of a lot more than we actually do.

Is it possible?
just about anything is if you think about it.

[Muerte]

Is it possible?
just about anything is if you think about it

  Finding life on the moon is possible, but we are not here to speak of possibilities.  We are here to figure out why the most capable organism on earth has yet to either difinitively prove or disprove the existance of Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect..., so please, if you have a thought of why shoot.  But again I will give a freindly warning.  Think well on what you say, reason it out completely, because if I find a chink in your armor, I will point it out.

[ravinclaw]

How would we disprove it? Its kinda like nessie, we would have to drain the lock to disprove it.
 
To disprove bigfoot we would have cut every tree, explore every cave.

[Muerte]

To disprove bigfoot we would have cut every tree, explore every cave.

  Yes that would either prove or disprove the existance of such an organism, but it's not very practical. 

  The purpose of this thread is to try and figure out why.  I came up with two questions at the start of this thread:

  Why do YOU ( points at the crowd ) think we have yet to aquire actual credible physical evidence of it's existance. 

  Why do YOU think that there are not more of these creatures in existance. ( Every creature so far has a tendency to reproduce in accordance to their environment so... )
 
  I was hoping that more questions would arise in reguard to our inability to solve this age old quest, but alas, there are no questions but mine.  Please, do not make me answer my own questions, because once you start answering yourself, people see you as mentally deficient.

[Angelus]

Well lets hear your theory Meurte, since you seem to sh*t on everyone elses theories yours must be near enough bullet proof and we can build from that.

[Moloch]

Well, before Mu goes and bares his soul/theory for all to see... Allow me:

The most logical reason for us not finding a corpse of one lying in a mountain valley somewhere in the Alps seems to be that we assume these BHMs (big hairy monsters) have the intelect of at least a neanderthal, who, even in those early days, burried there dead out of either respect or some religious type belief

  So this creature is capabile of rudimentary human thought.  If this were the case would they not also be using tools of some kind, and would there not also be some evidence of habitation in secluded areas such as caves.  To my knowledge there has been no such types of dicovery.  As to buring their dead, well I cann't say that they would have to use tools, but inorder to bury the dead deep enough for us to not discover them, not to mention scavengers which dig for food, well tools would help, and an inteligent animal would be able to figure that out.

It is most likely they breed seasonaly and keep to small groups, hence why they arent crawling all over forests and mountain ranges

  So are you saying they have enough inteligence to know that inorder to stay unobserved, they only breed rarely, to purposely keep their numbers low.  I ask not to be ostentatious, but it seems to me that every other organism on earth breeds until they reach the confines of their environment, also, if a certain organism breeds to keep their numbers low, they are asking for extinction.  Normal accidents, viruses, bacteria, environment, lack of food, hell anything can kill something that lives.  Also no other creature I know of purposely limits breeding, so this would put Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... in the extreme minority for intelligence if they do this on purpose.

Its just skeptisim

  It's skeptisim that causes us to ask questions in search of the truth.  It isn't because we want to not believe, but it is to keep us from believeing blindly, and no offence, but those who prefer to believe blindly are fools.

Its the same problem when we come to try to prove Gods existence "WE CAN"T!!" thats what makes it so difficult. We believe that we should be able to prove/disprove certain things like big foot or the yetti just because it is in the material world

  Proving God exist and proving that Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... exist are not compareable.  I know where you were going with this statement, but God ( if he exist ) does not exist on earth while Bigfoot/Yeti/Abominable Snowman/ect... apparently do.  As you said, we have discovered many things in our short time on earth, but have yet to ferrit out this elusive creature.  Why haven't we, with all of our vaunted technology discovered anything.  Is this creature so much smarter than we are?
[/quote]

I will point out merely one thing... something that should settle the debate of why we have had no previous encounters with this beast before.

In Africa, not so long ago, a previously unknown(to outsiders) population of lowland gorillas was discovered residing in the mountains of the Congo region... (links below). The locals told white scientists about them for decades, but the scientists never found evidence of them, and never got any pictures, just anecdotal heresay from local tribesman, as I've said just now.

Then, suddenly, voila, there they were, and the population of known gorillas in the wild grew substantially overnight. Now, in this thred we are discussing the possibility that another species of Great Ape resides in the americas and Eurasia, and has heretofore never been clearly photographed nor has anyone been able to get hold of a specimen for taxidermological examination.

so, before anyone else start bad mouthing, crushing, or generally sneering in anyone's direction again, I am going to ask all participants to remember:

1) Science does not know everything. If it did, then it would be God, and would have proven its own existence, making that argument null and void as well as this one.

2) YOU do not know everything. If you did, then you would be God, and would hence have to prove your existence to us, and hence this discussion would be moot until that one was resolved.

Links:

http://www.gorillas.org/125000_gorillas_discovered

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/08/05/congo.gorillas/index.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26016923/

[Angelus]

I never knew abou the gorillas. That is actualy fascinating. The whole thing could just be down to plain luck. We haven't proved they exist just because we havn't YET. Everything is discovered eventualy so the only reason we havn't found one is just because we havn't. Same reason I have yet to find a pair of trousers that give me support and comfort in all the right places. Its out there, we just haven't been in the right place at the right time.