[KubeSix]

Nebuchadnezzar... Isn't that the name of the hover craft in the Matrix? As for the article, I can't confirm it...

[Strife]

honestly the story of the devil and god have been changed so much times, that i think its near impossible to find an old written record, or an original story, in fact i recently found out the story of jesus christ came from egypt, and jerasulam took the man turned him into a "Divine" man gave him all these powers as of "he touches he heals"  he was no doubt a ordinary man, they used him as the figure head to there religion, here is another fact, he wasnt born in december he was born in july, if nobody believes me just look it up, and here is the point of this paragraph, if jesus was indeed made up like that, is it possible the devil was made up the same way? or lemme rephraise that, wasnt made up but "altered" maybe the storys are just altered for christians beliefs, now ill let all you say your piece

[jordyn]

honestly the story of the devil and god have been changed so much times, that i think its near impossible to find an old written record, or an original story, in fact i recently found out the story of jesus christ came from egypt, and jerasulam took the man turned him into a "Divine" man gave him all these powers as of "he touches he heals"  he was no doubt a ordinary man, they used him as the figure head to there religion, here is another fact, he wasnt born in december he was born in july, if nobody believes me just look it up, and here is the point of this paragraph, if jesus was indeed made up like that, is it possible the devil was made up the same way? or lemme rephraise that, wasnt made up but "altered" maybe the storys are just altered for christians beliefs, now ill let all you say your piece

offer some proof, you're claiming what even serious religious philosophers, archeologists and other religious experts like rabbis that have devoted their life to deciphering the religion haven't even yet proven or claimed...atheist propoganda is as factually twisted as they insist the bible is.

http://www.lifeofchrist.com/history/default.asp

and actually orthodox judaism does have an original story of the devil, as christianity was derived from their beliefs that's where one would find the roots of christianity, Christ was a jew before he was the Son of God...

http://www.lehrhaus.org/catalog/scrolls/scrolls5.html

the only serious change the devil went through is from an adversary making man prove his worthiness for Divine love and adoration into a romanticized eighteenth century figure inspired from greco roman ideals driven by a greedy and controlling pagan derived church.

so is your post really an honestly or is it more of a personal opinion derived from your experiences and limited research?

[Kadesh]

 You can't believe everything you read in the Bible. Why? Because it was written by men... and men what? Lie. Yes, lie. Man is fallible. And I'm not using the masculine term to be sexist... only because men really did write the bible. Everyone knows women lie more than men anyway.

[ravinclaw]

relegions tend to mix, or they have over the centurys. Everything was writen and rewriten, untill you just dont know what the hell to think about any of it.

The devil though, on a christian, or jewish, or muslim point of veiw, is he evil, they say yes but here is the way it actually is.......hypotheticly anyway.

The devil is a powerfull creature made by god, there is no doubt that he is more powerful than any human alive, right?  Then god makes people, and waunts angels, including the devil to take a back seat so to speak.

dose it make him evil, even if its true that he hates humanity? It would be like your landlord coming into your house with a bunch of rats and tell you that you have to take care of them because they are more important than your family. you know people are much more important than farkings rat,.....or are they?

its like that, humans are not even the same species as angels, its like compairing a pitbull to a pissant, and we are the pissants.


thats just some of the bulls**t that is stored in my brain, but it makes sence though dont it,

two posts got made while I was wrighting this but here it is anyway.

[jordyn]

You can't believe everything you read in the Bible. Why? Because it was written by men... and men what? Lie. Yes, lie. Man is fallible. And I'm not using the masculine term to be sexist... only because men really did write the bible. Everyone knows women lie more than men anyway.

by that statement you can't believe history either, that to was written by men viewing situations through their eyes and conveying it to the massses...i'm rather surprised how many people in this thread seem to easily discount the heart and mind of a person when it comes to personal faith dismissing it for a book.

as a christian i thought that's what i'm supposed to be doing?

 but i don't place such adamant faith in the bible, for me it's more of a guidebook of demonstrating how to best serve my God and what makes Him most pleased from those who experienced Him before i did, did it well enough to be a timeless example of what He loves most in Man and how to best deal with the hurdles and lessons when presented with them.

[Kadesh]

 If I could read the original text.. the ancient Hebrew version... I'd be more of a believer. But we've lost a lot through translations. And, no, I don't believe everything in the history books either.

[Muerte]

  Jordyn, welcome back, long time no see.  It's me, it's Muerte, and I too have been away for a while.  It seems fate is dead set on our continued meeting does it not?  It is a pleasure to see you again, though by the end of this I am sure you will agree that the pleasure was all mine.

  First off I would like to address your web sites.  Both are well written, both are collaborated by learned MEN, how ever there is a problem with the things these MEN have written.  These MEN are biased in their research.  Yes Jordyn they are biased.  Oh they write it is from an educated stand point but please.  Any religious man or woman worth their salt is not just libal to bend the truth, they are certain to do it.  The history of Christianity is full of adaptations to make happen what they want, you want proof?  OK, here is just one example.

  Here are several possible dates of the birth of Christ, all written by learned religious representatives and with "facts" to back it all up.

  http://www.ensignmessage.com/archives/christbirthday.html

  http://www.abetterhope.com/hope/birthday.html

  http://www.utopia-net.org/English/0417jesus1.html

  Why did they pick 25 Dec?  To debunk Santa, at least that is the popular belief.

  My My My.  Can anybody tell me why Christianity is unable to get it's collective act together and agree on something so simple?  Something that should obviously be a corner stone, a lynch pin to it's basis of foundation?  Hell, Christians are even unable to figure out which way to worship Christ.  Does anybody know the exact number of denominations there are the worship Christ?  Let see, there are Catholics, Baptist, Presbyterian, Jehovah Witness, Church of Christ, ect....  So tell me, which one is right, or are they all right.  Correct me if I am wrong but each one says all others are not following the teachings of Christ correctly.  Especially Catholics and Baptist, go ahead stick two representatives from each into a room to argue theology and see where that goes.

  Now let me ask you this.  Who wrote the bible?  Was it God?  Not to my knowledge, no it was brought about to consolidate the power of a bright if not manipulative Roman emperor and his Nicaea council in an attempt to consolidate the power of the church, worked rather well wouldn't you say?  Did God ever come down and say "I want you to write all of my works into a book and use it to make your lives better"  No, that didn't happen.  God did write rules for how to live a righteous life, God wrote them on two stone tablets, and they were written by Gods own hand, that is if you can believe the bible of course.  Now can we believe it as fact?  We could, if we could find the remains of them.

  To  is the Devil evil?  Who knows, all's we have to go on is what the oh so reliable Christian doctrine tells us, because they are sooooo trust worthy.  What exactly happened, hmmmmm, was it Lucifer (one of many names I could choose from as Christianity can not even agree on that little tidbit of information) attempted to stand up and question God and then received a cosmic lady slap for his effort.  Who knows, again, all we have to go on is what the church chooses to tell us, and again they are sooooooo trust worthy.  Am I bashing Christianity?  Not really, but I am questioning it, as any man/woman who has the ability to think for themselves should do.  Anyone who accepts what is set before them without questioning it deserves the fall that will inevitably come when faith is tested and it fails them.  The question was brought forth as an attempt to understand something, not to debunk anything.  Is it opinion?  Sure it is, but so is the it just an opinion that God truly exist, while I have no proof that God does not exist neither do I have proof the God does exist.  Religion, all religion comes from mans attempt to understand something that is beyond his/her comprehension, and Christianity is no exception.

  I will stop here as I am now hearing a rather loud ringing in my ears, hmmm someone must be talking about me.  Hope you all have enjoyed this post as much as I have, can't wait to hear from you all in the very near future.

                                                                                                                                                             Yours Truly
                                                                                                                                                                   Muerte.

[Kadesh]

 Where is the applauding smiley when you need it?? That... was brilliance. Religion to me is what I personally believe. They all call themselves something different and say the others are wrong.. but they all have a similar basis. A god. A Creator. Alpha and Omega... who said it has to be one person. I was raised on the bible by my grandmother, and even she is finding out that things she thought to be true, aren't necessarily so. There are so many ways to take what it says... our own interpretation on the interpretation of someone thousands of years ago. 

 Another opinion... the devil can't be good or evil.. because he is only a voice in our heads... right? Wouldn't that just make the devil and god our conscience? Or is it that our conscience is made up of the devil and god?

[Muerte]

Where is the applauding smiley when you need it?? That... was brilliance. Religion to me is what I personally believe. They all call themselves something different and say the others are wrong.. but they all have a similar basis. A god. A Creator. Alpha and Omega... who said it has to be one person. I was raised on the bible by my grandmother, and even she is finding out that things she thought to be true, aren't necessarily so. There are so many ways to take what it says... our own interpretation on the interpretation of someone thousands of years ago. 

 Another opinion... the devil can't be good or evil.. because he is only a voice in our heads... right? Wouldn't that just make the devil and god our conscience? Or is it that our conscience is made up of the devil and god?

  Ohhh, the angel demon on the shoulder routine.

[Kadesh]

 That's what god and the devil have always made me think of. One telling me good, the other bad. But sometimes the best thing to do is what neither of them will say.

[Strife]

Very nicely said, i got nothing to add.......

[Kadesh]

 I do!

 If both of these 'beings' are inside my head... wouldn't they actually be a part of me and cease to exist elsewhere? Thereby making the theories about god and satan null and void... or simply solidifying that we, ourselves are responsible for our actions and we can be evil, good, or gray.............

[Grendelion]

By my view, God and the Devil aren't inside your head, their influence is.  Its their teachings, their viewpoints and morals(or lack thereof) that drive your actions.  Deciding whether or not these figures are actual entities that live on some alternate plane of existence(or all of them simultaneously) is of course a matter of faith.

by that statement you can't believe history either, that to was written by men viewing situations through their eyes and conveying it to the massses...i'm rather surprised how many people in this thread seem to easily discount the heart and mind of a person when it comes to personal faith dismissing it for a book.

Jordyn, written history is more often than not backed up by archaeological evidence.  Show me Noah's Ark, The Holy Grail, Eden, all that stuff mentioned in the Bible that Indiana Jones has no problem finding, yet we in the real world can't.  Believe me, I'd love it if many of these tales were true word for word, but the fact remains so far that they are not.  The bible is not a historical textbook, more like a moral guidebook.  Each tale has its own little "life lesson" to it similar to, though not the same as, Aesops Fables.  Some historical locales and figures are included, but overall the stories were designed to "illuminate" the reader in the difference between right and wrong, good and evil, duality and choice, etc.

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"
-Mahatma Ghandi

[Kadesh]

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.  Your Christians are so unlike your Christ"
-Mahatma Gandhi




 Truer words were never spoken.