Author Topic: The truth  (Read 658 times)

Fatekiller25
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The truth
« on: September 08, 2012, 02:36:23 AM »
I've been thinking why is the truth so hard to find why hide and show lie's,some may lie for power,control and many other thing's.
People who try to find truth to thing's here something they like and stick with it and live there life not caring and if someone did find the truth,the real truth then how would he tell it to people who are stuck on one thing and think that they are right and he is lying.

The truth is hard to find now,for anything.
But what i want to now is WHY?
Why lie and hide the truth,if someone was to go looking for the truth to what they want to now were would they start?
That's what most people ask and no one really now's were to start.

But if someone was really looking for truth....were would they start?
this is what i ask you.

Thank you,Dustin
Is what you now a truth or a lie?
People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.

jordyn

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Re: The truth
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2012, 05:08:37 PM »
to know the truth, search for it, don't ask...I usually start at the library and see where it goes from there.

people lie because they want to spare another persons feelings or they feel guilty for doing something they did and want to avoid trouble.  Esoterically it comes down to those who want to keep their secrets and those who want to pass what they know on, the difference between a tyrant and a teacher.

what i know as truth is true to my perceptions but other people have other perceptions, truth is subjective. 
"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

markml0528
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Re: The truth
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2012, 07:52:36 PM »
I would have to disagree, the truth is most certainly not subjective.  The truth is whatever it is, it is not subjective in any way. 

What someone believes to be true, does not make it true.  The truth is independent of whatever one person believes. 

As an example, there are people who believe Elvis Presley is alive.  To them, there is no doubt about it.  They "know" for a fact that Elvis Presley is alive.  Does this make it "true" for them?  In a delusional sense, yes.  But the truth is Elvis is not alive, therefore the truth is independent of whatever one believes. 

Belief holds no bearing on the truth.

TheCopperDragon

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Re: The truth
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2012, 10:09:55 PM »
There are two types of truth: ontological (relating to existence) truth and conventional (relating to history) truth.

Maybe I'll just respond to the topic and go from there.

Quote
People who try to find truth to thing's here something they like and stick with it and live there life not caring and if someone did find the truth,the real truth then how would he tell it to people who are stuck on one thing and think that they are right and he is lying.

Sometimes it's like humanity is a congregation of many different species--a melting pot of experiences, I guess you could say. What makes perfect sense to one "species" is completely false to another.

The key is to learn the language of the "species" and try to explain it in their own words.

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The truth is hard to find now,for anything.
But what i want to now is WHY?

Ontological truth is right there in front of everyone-- it's not too hard to "find."  You can examine it from an "a prior" perspective by philosophizing and then following the logical path your ideas lead you down. That, or you can consider the "a posteriori" perspective by working backwards and citing the empirical evidence as you go.

In the end, "a prior" and "a posteriori" will complement each other.

As for conventional truth? Well, history is, in part, written by the people that only saw or heard so much. Herodotus, for example, didn't really know what he was talking about. He just wrote down what he heard about at the time. He did the best he could, but there is always that aspect of uncertainty.

Conventional truth is a bit more difficult to discover. It's also just as possible to poison the well with false "facts."

So, in addition to historians writing down whatever suited them, I also find myself leaning towards Jordyn's perspective. Some conventional truth is kept hidden because some people want to live their life without knowing that someone has discovered the means of blowing up the planet. ((Metaphor... maybe.))

That doesn't account for everyone.

The question that springs to mind: will humanity cater to emotional people who prefer their own turths (intentional misspelling) or logical people who prefer the very-real-absolute truth?

Rephrasing that: Will humanity continue to lie to itself... or will humanity come to accept that things weren't what they believed?

I can't exclude myself from that. I'd rather KNOW if I was wrong. This leads me to a very dear question I've been forced to ask myself today: could I ever let go of everything I used to believe?

If you found the truth today, could you let go of everything that you hold dear?

((Everyone you ask will, of course, say that they could. But...))

Even more deadly: Am I just some emotional nut-case... or am I genuinely interested in truth? Perhaps that is the REAL question being asked.

You know, my title is "Christian" and I'm almost certainly against that view now, but I could really say that I wasn't ever a Christian. That is, I never became so deeply entrenched in Christianity that I had to actually consider what choice I was about to make. I never had to ask that "dear question" before. When things fell apart, I just... sort of took the nihilistic plunge.

I don't have an answer to that "dear question" for myself. I wish I did.

Still, I guess it doesn't matter in the end because I'm happy just as long as humanity starts to follow the correct truths. I could become completely irrelevant and I wouldn't care.  :-)

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But if someone was really looking for truth....were would they start?
this is what i ask you.

For ontological truth, you could consider a math book, followed by philosophy and science. Math, again, is particularly important! The grand irony is that it is the most hated subject there is!

I also agree with Mark: There IS an absolute truth out there,  even if that absolute truth is that there is no purpose and life means f-all.

Finally... Conventional truths? Who knows? Maybe "a prior" and "a posteriori" apply to history as well? "A prior" wise, you could come up with some bizarre alternate history and see if it makes sense by following the logical path you're lead down.

Who knows? Maybe you could be the one who will piece it all together?  :wink:







X(A+B) = (AX) + (AB). Politicize that.

curiousNightwalker

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Re: The truth
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2012, 09:13:16 PM »
honestly.. truth and lies are just points of view. one person might think that a man is going to build an bomb, and acuse him of doing it, and the man will deny making it look like he's lying. when he is actually going to do somting totally diffrent......thats just what i think.
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Raziel
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Re: The truth
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 12:02:33 PM »
honestly.. truth and lies are just points of view. one person might think that a man is going to build an bomb, and acuse him of doing it, and the man will deny making it look like he's lying. when he is actually going to do somting totally diffrent......thats just what i think.

Finding the man's motive is actually important to determining whether he was or was not building the bomb. Thus in the scenario you have presnted. They (lies and the truth) are not merely arbitrary points of view but things with a definite and clear meaning based upon fact.
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