Monstrous

Witches Brew => Pagan Living => Topic started by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 03:23:39 AM

Title: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 03:23:39 AM
Hi, just wanted your opinion uppon a christian person that performs Wicca? is it right? is it possible? Can both be compatible. Im a very open minded christian and i feel like the church is limitating me with its own rules, my faith its with my god not with its church...
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: LeXtruX on August 04, 2010, 03:31:39 AM
it is possible, I have seen it, but they mixed both believes.
Wicca is the believes in the former gods of nature, like the moongodess and the father of furtility... (I can be off a lot with this, so others, please correct ^^)
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 03:38:43 AM
Interesting, but do those gods have their own entities and personality or are they just simbolism for a certain part of the nature?
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 04:08:03 AM
Hmm, well, i cant say i am exactly a christian, becouse the church doesnt affects my decisions, my only church is the bible, what you can call the vatican is just a big ball of corruption,  anyways  :focus:
 I think i need to meditate a little about this, my intentions in witchcraft are pure, but i need to clear my mind and construct my arguments so that i dont offend my god in any way.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Raziel on August 04, 2010, 06:25:55 AM
there is.
 magic is indistinguishable from super advanced science.

THus the argument is that you should know what you are doing so that it becomes a science and not a superstitious system of causing phenomena to occur.

and your spells are merely experiments, despite what you use em for as the change in variables allow you to further refine your understanding of the system.


or you could go like....... FOR GREAT JUSTICE!
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 07:14:41 AM
Thank you for your advise, i realized that, no matter what i do, it wont alter my faith in my god, i am not oposing to him in anyway, in fact, i might acomplish more of his will with the skills i may obtain.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: matthew321 on August 04, 2010, 08:06:06 AM
Why would you ever be concerned that they conflict? Believe whatever you want too. Tell anyone who does not like it to go to hell. Religion is yours not theirs and not god's.

Don't label yourself as being a Christian then think you have to follow the Christian guidelines and can't tap into other religions for fear of going to hell. Go ahead and practice whatever you want and believe what you want.

Spirituality is about growth, how many single religions can offer complete spiritual growth? The answer is none, you can't rely on one you pick out what applies to you from what you want.

Just believe what you want and if you find a religion that complies with you then great. But one that hits the mark on everything is unlikely.

Just to clarify I was using Christian as an example I did not call you a Christian or insult Christianity.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 04, 2010, 01:43:40 PM
I usually label myself has a christian becouse it is the most "looked like" to my religion, i believe in the same god, however i have my own complexities and i difer a lot from the christian church. I was raised has a catholic but later on i developed my own set of believes from those believes that were taught to me, i also believe that we make our own sins, if i think something is wrong and i do it, i consider it a sin, and i feel ashamed, if i dont, its not a sin on my believe, but i really need to meditate and look inside me to find the "yes or no" answer.

Anyway, thank you all for your help, you really took some weight out of my shoulders :D
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Moloch on August 05, 2010, 01:39:10 AM
Actually, sticking strictly to the facts of both religion's tenets; they do not mesh, and are in fact in opposition. To paraphrase, 'Suffer not a witch[wiccan/pagan] to live.' There is also: 'A man cannot serve two masters, for he shall always be in conflict.' This is referring to serving god and the Devil. Pagans and wiccans and witches were(and in some places still are) considered to be servants of the Devil.

This is in the Bible you use to guide you. I suggest that while you are meditating, you start researching your beliefs much more deeply. I believe you will be very surprised at what you find out.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 01:52:34 AM
Well, I am not talking about two religions, I am talking about believing in G-D ( the christian god), And practise Witchcraft, i take the bible has a reliable source of information, And usually my place to seek out some answers, but it doesnt writes laws to me, Mainly becouse it was written by man. My faith is with my god, And that will not change, No matter what i do, I just cant see how using witchcraft to do good, and do his will will offend him.

I see this has an example: (Two friends are building a well, and they are digging, I want to help, will i offend my god if i use a shovel?)
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Moloch on August 05, 2010, 02:05:41 AM
Actually, according to the Bible you hold so dear - using witchcraft for any reason will and does offend him. This is because witchcraft allegedly subverts god's will, and as such is considered heresy. The two belief systems are completely opposed; even though christianity came later.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 02:17:09 AM
Oh well, at this point i think its better i dont do anything at all,I will pray, And eventually some answer will come up to my mind, hopefully.

EDIT: When you mean subvert gods will, you mean like some kind of cheating? Like, witchcraft is there, but we are not supposed to use it?
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 04:46:42 AM
Well, seems i better leave witchcraft and magick alone  :-D
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: oldbill4823 on August 05, 2010, 04:54:28 AM
Why not be both, just keep them separate?
 
Just have two personalities that do not cross over. Like separate areas on a hard drive.

They just have different file names, for instance 'Pope', and 'Merlin'.
Both would be authentic and true to their selves.

I find it amazing that this is the second time i have spoken about this to you, we were discussing struggling against the 'other side' of 'deja vu', remember?
Everyone else said they would join in too, to help keep the sides separate.

Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 05:13:05 AM
Hmm, wish it was easier like that
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: oldbill4823 on August 05, 2010, 05:22:20 AM
Yes you did.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: jordyn on August 05, 2010, 07:04:45 AM
to be a christian you have to simply believe that Christ was God in the flesh that willingly died so that we may live fully as human, it has nothing to do with the church, men, or magic...but you're heart!

"have no other gods before me!"

lady and moloch are extremely right, even as a witch i had this issue.

God does have his magic users, the israelites, better known now as jews, they have a rather fascinating approach to it, rather than using lesser deities or calling on the the energies of the earth they call on the energy of God. i don't know much about it, most mysiticism is still way foggy between doing as God has planned for us and doing what i wish, using God as my excuse for me ex witch tastes....from the beginning the israelites and god had issues between his inluence and their pass paganism.

if you had unwavering faith in God you wouldn't be asking us these questions, you'd be asking Him, from his conception he was a jealous, possessive God that called people out of pagan nations to follow him, just one God who says He'll do it all for those who have faith in Him.

why go to other sources and try to force his hand?  God's on his time not ours..


Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 07:20:45 AM
That is also true
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Angelus on August 05, 2010, 10:12:06 AM
i think I can make this alot easier for you. The sections of the bible that are against witchcraft were added later. And back then witchcraft was just any other religion that wasn't based off the judeo christian, one god belief and acts of witchcraft were celebrating or praying or tributing your gods. Early christianity, before the churches started editing the religion and texts contained witchcraft. You can still find spells and such now based off early christian rights. They also belived in spirits and angels which were christianised versions of the pagan and wiccan gods and godesses. So yes it is completely possible as the original christians had spells and other lower deitys. Anyone who tells you otherwise are either caught up in the propaganda of the modern christian church or the narrow mindedness that can come from some wiccans who say they dont believe in the church because of all its flaws and unwillingness to accept their lifestyle but then turn and persecute christians for their belief. Im catholic, but I am also a vampire, a demonologist, and I dont call myself a wiccan or anything but I have performed a spell or two.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 10:43:24 AM
Im not concerned with what the curch says, my only concern is that it will have negative impact on my relation with god.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Angelus on August 05, 2010, 11:33:58 AM
No. As long as you follow the standard guidelines he puts out. I still believe in God. I believe in a god that doesn't have the insecurity of a 13 year old girl and needs told that I still believe in him every sunday. My relationship with him has not changed. I still even attend mass on occasion. He has not punished me for anything yet. I also believe in all the other religions gods, I just don't think they are actually the same type of entity as god. I just think that their is one god. call him what you will. I call him God.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 05, 2010, 02:09:49 PM
Hmm Yeah, in fact it is me that need to look inside myself and know the answer.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: jordyn on August 05, 2010, 04:51:42 PM
i think I can make this alot easier for you. The sections of the bible that are against witchcraft were added later. And back then witchcraft was just any other religion that wasn't based off the judeo christian, one god belief and acts of witchcraft were celebrating or praying or tributing your gods. Early christianity, before the churches started editing the religion and texts contained witchcraft. You can still find spells and such now based off early christian rights. They also belived in spirits and angels which were christianised versions of the pagan and wiccan gods and godesses. So yes it is completely possible as the original christians had spells and other lower deitys. Anyone who tells you otherwise are either caught up in the propaganda of the modern christian church or the narrow mindedness that can come from some wiccans who say they dont believe in the church because of all its flaws and unwillingness to accept their lifestyle but then turn and persecute christians for their belief. Im catholic, but I am also a vampire, a demonologist, and I dont call myself a wiccan or anything but I have performed a spell or two.

prove it!

at the time of "early christians" there would have been no witchcraft as they came into being during the roman occupation. 

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.htm (http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_chov.htm)

you are slightly right about witchcraft, that term came into use during king james, the trick to understanding the roots of christianity is understanding judaism, and they did have some serious rules against anything that could be considered a form of sorcery, polytheism, or other heathen religion, anything "christian witchcraft" would be derived from roman catholic dogma. 

So sure...if you're a roman catholic there's no problems with witchcraft...it all deals with praying and making offerings to idols in lieu of God with elaborate rites and rituals to show it all off.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: jordyn on August 05, 2010, 04:57:18 PM
Hmm Yeah, in fact it is me that need to look inside myself and know the answer.

that's using your heart!
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Moloch on August 05, 2010, 08:16:26 PM
As I, and Jordyn, have stated. Research your beliefs. Don't just go by what others tell you. If you do this, you will find your own truth.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 06, 2010, 01:45:30 AM
Indeed intersting info jordyn, but what do you mean with "lieu of God"?
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 06, 2010, 02:15:07 AM
Hmm, i decided that practising Wicca might be a little to heavy for me, so i think will search for early christian, solomon and jewish kinds of magick, since they seem to be more connected to god
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: jordyn on August 06, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
Indeed intersting info jordyn, but what do you mean with "lieu of God"?

I think she means the Saints (correct me if I'm wrong, jordyn).

quite right!...and angels and statues and relics and the virgin mary...it seems they pray to everyone but God, the Source has loved us from our creation. he created what they worship and now pollute the true messages one can find if they seek them with God, not with empty words and hollow hearts of men.

where did Jesus preach, how did he live, what did he say?  that's the christian way.  ;)

God's old school, i like old school...you have talk to the jews to understand Him but he speaks with more might.  :D

if one sticks to organized religion then they end up going elsewhere with hate in their heart, i did...it's not true if it's not your choice.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Belking on August 07, 2010, 01:53:23 AM
Interesting, i always prefered the old school, old testment of the bible, of cource i have faith in jesus, but i prefer to pray directly to god, however i dont have any problems on praying to saints and the virgin mary, for i am no workshiping them has gods but has saints, choosen by god to speak his might.
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Raziel on November 11, 2010, 07:24:29 AM
Speak his might? or His will........


Think for one second. The saints come and go like rocks on a river bed depending on the current pope.


these aren't avatars of a deity's power and wisdom, these are men and women selected and invented to symbolize and humanize the face of the religion in order to keep it from going passe.

Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Moloch on November 11, 2010, 06:27:31 PM
Speak his might? or His will........


Think for one second. The saints come and go like rocks on a river bed depending on the current pope.


these aren't avatars of a deity's power and wisdom, these are men and women selected and invented to symbolize and humanize the face of the religion in order to keep it from going passe.

Raz just spoke in something coherent... The weather in Hell must have gone subzero...
Title: Re: Wicca and Christian?
Post by: Devious Viper on December 21, 2010, 03:56:49 AM
A cynic might suggest that if you are drawn to some b.astard offspring (and I use the term in its proper sense, not as an epithet) of paganism and Christianity, you could do worse than just convert to Roman Catholicism. It's all there in spades for you: a dying and rising god-king, a celestial goddess, highly stylised rites and rituals, rambling Latin incantations, offerings, minor deities governing various facets of life, candles and incense... heck, you even get to share most of the feast days.