[ViciouslyMe]

But why does a human soul need to have a reason to stick around? It can't simply WANT to stay? I mean, I could have sworn free will was a part of being human. And as to why what my friend communicates with couldn't be anything but human, anything else would have some reason for it. The being she sees and speaks to isn't doing anything other than simple communication and observation, nothing else. What could be accomplished through this? She isn't "learning" anything from it being there, here judgement hasn't changed at all, she is the same person as before.

Anaya, that is very interesting what you've posted. Not saying its going to be my belief now, but it makes sense and (in my opinion) holds ground on its own.

[Anaya]

Not trying to change belief's, just posting the basis of my own

But why does a human soul need to have a reason to stick around? It can't simply WANT to stay?

Cause its not natural way of order

[ViciouslyMe]

The natural way of order?I think for any one of us to think we now the natural way of order, we would be assuming way too much. There is no definite way of knowing of how things work around us, and I'm sorry to say that I won't simply accept it as the natural order. Even in thephysical world around us, we know how most things work, andthen something throws us off guard because it fails to follow the order we percieved.

Well, i see you want to believe what u want to believe, and Im perfectly fine with that. If you wanna believe that what your friend is communicating with is a dead person, and "she is quite fine" still, please, do so. But maybe you and your friend will be very suprised after a while, and i just hope, not hurt as well. Cheers

ps: people that play with Ouija boards and summoning also think its really fine and ok and nothing wrong with it, then get it right in their face

[Anaya]

:/ I use a Ouija board at least once every 3 months for the past year. There IS a safe way to use them and it's called 'the rules'. YOU make the rules when you use the damn thing, and THEY must follow it cause it's YOUR channel of communication.

"We open the board to speak only to peaceful spirits; any spirits who speak to us may not harm any of these members, before, during, or after the communication."

Rules like that. NEVER had issues, NEVER had after effects like... physical or mental harm. s**t people throw down for ouija boards is they aren't using them CORRECTLY. DAMN am I sick of stupid people... I even used one once to speak to a spirits that was in my Mother's backyard that was attacking people (making them drained, unexplained pains, hallucinations, etc) that shouldn't be there cause of the meds my Mom is on. After talking to it through the board and then eliminating it on the spot, the s**t stopped happening at her house. (BTW without her present or knowing!)

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than a sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.” -MLK Jr.

Now that THAT tangent is over, I have a spirit with me who said he refuses to be born again because he doesn't want to live again. He said living is too painful, and he is rather happy just chillin' around and randomly amusing anyone who is sensitive enough to see/hear him. To say that he isn't human and that he didn't choose to stay here after 120 something odd years from his last death and over 1000 from his FIRST life? I say poppy-cock and moose-balls. He was also double checked via a RULE-LAID ouija board and confirmed with a room full of people. YES you can lay a board for 'no lying'. By the spirits... Not to mention pendulum checks by different people and other mediums got the same answer through different trials with no knowledge of his age.

[ViciouslyMe]

See, the thing is, I know nothing bad will come from it. And yes, I know I'm sounding like every annoying person that comes through here pretending to know everything. The truth is, its not the only time someone I know has communicated with a human soul. And while its easier to say that it isn't, to cast doubt, I can honestly say that in these occasions there was nothing to be gained through the imitation of said souls. I over think everything that happens around me, and anything people tell me. I honestly will interpret every possability, because I am the paranoid person that I am. And its fine, I don't expect to make a believer out of you. My intentions arn't to change anyone's opinion here, because either they believe in something and won't change or do of their own accord. But it is smarter not to think one's own beliefs are not the definite truth, to be open to other possibilities. Because there is always going to be something that surprises people, no matter how much they think they know. Heck, there's still things in thephysical world throwing mankind off guard.

Nina, while I think you have a point about assumptions (e.g. "oh, yeah, my dead friend is fine because she says she is, and she has to be my friend, because she says she is" - which obviously can be twisted), I think you're kind of falling back into the "assumptions" thing yourself by saying how the natural order works.

Again, this is all a personal belief thing, so of course you're welcome to say the very thing

I think that what we're lacking is active proof over here, because we're not actually going through that many anecdotes that we can share without relying on, "in my experience," or ,"my friend said..." This goes for me, too, because I'm not really being in the clear about my information. My apologies. If we can get recordings or notes that are able to make some kind of a difference in the way we view things, I feel like that would prevent major arguments.

Just my thought. Obviously, personal beliefs are always going to be supported or disagreed with by various people. This might not even be the answer.

I think that what we're lacking is active proof over here, because we're not actually going through that many anecdotes that we can share without relying on, "in my experience," or ,"my friend said..." This goes for me, too, because I'm not really being in the clear about my information. My apologies. If we can get recordings or notes that are able to make some kind of a difference in the way we view things, I feel like that would prevent major arguments.

Agreed, too little empirical evidence, and answers we can all get so far are deeply based on our religious beliefs

[ViciouslyMe]

Yeah, sorry for getting so defensive and some what aggresive. Was in a pretty angry state when I typed that lastpost up. Still, I do agree that we need evidence in this matter.

Again, I have a few books that I could bring up over here, I just have to look through our library and find them. So my end will have some source documentation for y'all to peruse.

Out of curiosity: what would you all define as a true "ghost," if that's at all possible? Just fodder for discussion. I'm not even sure you can nail a haunting down on any one entity, provided we use what you consider a "ghost" to explain certain occurrences in said hauntings.

[ViciouslyMe]

I would define ghost mostly as the soul or spirit of a deceased that makes itself known, be it visualy or through interaction. Though until observations lean towards it being a soul/spirit, I'd just label it as a haunting.

[ravinclaw]

I find Nina's theory of the fourty day thing for a spirit to hang around prety interesting....and so far as a natural death, I would go so far as to say its probably somewhat acurate.  I beleive things arnt as simple as we would like to believe. We dont always experiance the same things when we die. People who died sudenly, tragicly, unexpectedly may tend to hang around a little longer. Those who expected death, knew it was coming....possibly even welcomed it due to a poor quallity of life are able to move on with ease.

BUT  what of those who train for it. We all know the black cloke draws near. There are ways to manipulate our aura, chi, what ever you choose to call it. By doing so can we manipulate death itself? Shall we look into the THREE Deaths? or have we already?.....A new subject? Not if you wait for me to bring it up   

No, I'd say that kind of fits with this topic. Good question. It's possible, indeed; I've seen it done. Not to say the person's immortal at all -- they pushed the boundaries of death for quite a long time. Things just ended up backfiring on him because he was relying on darker works -- the manipulation of negative spirits and souls (those who could not move on, due to extreme and horrible karma, etc.)...yeah.