You little devil! 

[Shadowborn]

Good lord, man, don't blow your wad all at once. You can always save a couple of posts for point/counterpoint...  

Thin-skinned? I was just pointing out obvious baiting...if that's what you feel you need to do to draw people into a discussion, then your forum has some serious problems.

If you want to see thin-skinned, Limey, let's get you into a discussion about gun control.  

Now concerning the quote from Dr. Gregor, he makes some valid points. I hadn't thought of beef broth as a possible source of infection...forest for the trees problem, I guess. I'm questioning his assertion that the incubation period is up to "decades long" for variant CJ disease, however. Every other listing I've seen for it (CDC among others) lists it as "years," with decades only referring to classic CJ disease, which is not related to BSE.

Also, the Washington State cow was destroyed, it never made it to the market.

As for the rest, yes, it seems pretty clear that the USDA needs to step up and deliver on safety testing, both for health issues and market reasons. If we're lucky, Creekstone Farms will win its suit, and more companies will follow suit, even if USDA regulation does not require it.

Despite this, the current situation at hand tends to support the idea that BSE isn't currently a major problem (I'm not saying that this justifies USDA balking at more prevalent testing.) I say this simply because the amount of beef and beef products consumed by the American public is staggering. If BSE were prevelant, one would think that we'd be seeing cases of variant CJD in the population by now. Since the disease is triggered by prions (abnormal proteins) in the brain tissue, and these prions enter the system by eating infected beef, one would think that greater consumption would lead to a faster onset time.

And I'll still take that steak, thank you very much.

Good lord, man, don't blow your wad all at once. You can always save a couple of posts for point/counterpoint...  

Thin-skinned? I was just pointing out obvious baiting...if that's what you feel you need to do to draw people into a discussion, then your forum has some serious problems.

If you want to see thin-skinned, Limey, let's get you into a discussion about gun control.  

Awww, ain't this cute.  Shadowborn and DV are bonding..... 

And I'll still take that steak, thank you very much.

I hardly ever buy beef; when I do I look to see if I can afford a brand called Laura's Lean Beef.  This woman started the company herself with only a few cattle that were fed high quality feed, and have had no hormone shots or whatever to make them fatter so that the meat weighs more.

When I cook meat, the choice is usually chicken, although I have my doubts about the safety of this meat too.  The "handle with care" label and instructions make me feel as though I'm carrying something in my grocery cart that came from a toxic waste dump. 

No meat seems to be the same as it was when I was a child.  Of course, I've said before I was raised on a farm and we butchered and preserved all of our own meat.

Chickens used to be soooo much better.  Sometimes in cleaning out a chicken, my grandmother would find a little egg yolk that was in the process of forming.  She would stew the hen along with the little eggs and my mother and grandfather would playfully argue over which of them would get this delicacy.

I also use a lot of fish.  I can buy it frozen in bulk at Sam's Club and it's very affordable for us.  But with the oceans so full of nasty chemicals, who knows what we're ingesting.

When I was younger I loved to go fishing.  I was good at it, too.  This day and time I don't believe it would be safe to eat any fish taken from the Kentucky River.  It's a shame - catfish are so good.  Perhaps if someone was serious about clean meat and wanted to fish they could bring the fish home alive and keep them in a tank of clean water for a few days, changing the water every day.  I don't know if that would be long enough to get a lot of toxins out of them or not.  It would certainly be a lot of trouble for a fish dinner.

We lassoed a snapping turtle once (literally saw it walking from the spring to a pond) and tied it to a tree.  My ex-husband butchered it and I cooked it.  It was pretty good, but I wouldn't want to do it again.  I didn't enjoy eating something that was still trying to walk away after it was dead.

~Morticia

[jordyn]

actually through a few, comparisons my own husband has been considering this, problem...and discussing it with some of his buddies, others are beginning to consider there may be something to it...

*shrugs*  i'm not giving up a nice steak or offer of barbecue yet, but i am adjusting to eating more chicken and slowly working on tolerating fish...salmon isn't so bad slathered in lemon and pepper...grilled slightly. 

but i am adjusting to eating more chicken and slowly working on tolerating fish...salmon isn't so bad slathered in lemon and pepper...grilled slightly. 

My son loves salmon.  I put 'lemon pepper' dry seasoning on it and bake it.  That's one of the few things he prefers home cooked to some kind of convenience quick food. 

We have so much chicken sometimes I think I'm going to start clucking.  Twenty-five years ago beef was outrageously priced and chicken was a good option.   Now it's all pretty expensive, but usually chicken is a little better value for the money.

~Morticia

[jordyn]

but i am adjusting to eating more chicken and slowly working on tolerating fish...salmon isn't so bad slathered in lemon and pepper...grilled slightly. 

My son loves salmon.  I put 'lemon pepper' dry seasoning on it and bake it.  That's one of the few things he prefers home cooked to some kind of convenience quick food. 

We have so much chicken sometimes I think I'm going to start clucking.  Twenty-five years ago beef was outrageously priced and chicken was a good option.   Now it's all pretty expensive, but usually chicken is a little better value for the money.

~Morticia

it's the hamburger i get sick of, around here that's usually the cheapest meat, my husband buys a box of frozen meat patties....too bad boca burger is so expensive, i liked it, but it's the same with frozen chicken, several pounds for seven dollars that last a month, i ate a vegen indian restraunt and they had this excellent cheese that cooked into the texture and slight flavor of chicken.

if you buy bulk around here, beefwise it's a pretty good deal to just find a farmer, they sell half cows for a hundred or so and then it's about the same price to have it prepared...if you have the freezer, i'm sure that would be a healthy beef, the little farmer down the road can't afford hormones and other additives that the big meat houses can.   

[Shadowborn]

I'm a big fan of just about all meat products. Being from Hawaii, I love fish, though my access to it here in Spokane is obviously a lot more limited. Of course, with all the warnings these days about rising mercury levels in ocean fish, I suppose it's a good thing I don't eat as much any more.

As for chicken, I should be clucking. I've had chicken for three meals the last six days running. Still, I'm a creative cook, so it's never the same twice.

[jordyn]

I'm a big fan of just about all meat products. Being from Hawaii, I love fish, though my access to it here in Spokane is obviously a lot more limited. Of course, with all the warnings these days about rising mercury levels in ocean fish, I suppose it's a good thing I don't eat as much any more.

As for chicken, I should be clucking. I've had chicken for three meals the last six days running. Still, I'm a creative cook, so it's never the same twice.

i roasted one the other day in our crockpot, with honey and barbeque sauce...i think that's my favorite way to prepare chicken.

tomarrow we're having steak though, it was a nice, thick large piece of angus meat on salel...i'm still not sure what i'm going to make with it, we had pepper steak last week.

Related topic...

More 'intersex fish' found in Potomac

Some species of male fish in the Potomac River and its tributaries are developing female sexual traits at a frequency higher than scientists have seen before, raising concerns about pollutants in a waterway that provides drinking water for millions of people. The so-called "intersex fish," which produce immature eggs in their testes, were discovered in the Potomac rivershed in 2003 and have also been found in other parts of the country. But the frequency that the U.S. Geological Surveys found last year is much higher than what has been found elsewhere, said fish pathologist Vicki Blazer.

In some Potomac tributaries, nearly all of the male smallmouth bass caught in last year's survey were the abnormal fish. In the Potomac itself, 60% of male largemouth bass exhibited female characteristics, with 25% producing eggs. Female fish caught in the survey did not develop any unusual sex traits, though fish of both sexes exhibited lesions and other pollution-related problems, said Blazer, who coordinated the survey.

Smallmouth bass appear to be more susceptible to intersex development than largemouth bass, Blazer said.

Blazer said researchers are still waiting on data that would help them determine the water quality at the time the fish were caught, but preliminary data taken from the Potomac found a variety of chemical pollutants. It is not exactly clear what is causing the changes, though it is likely a combination of pollutants.

Certain chemicals and pesticides are believed to stimulate estrogen production. Also, estrogen from birth control pills and human waste can make its way from sewage treatment plants to the waterways.

The Environmental Protection Agency has been studying the issue of so-called "endocrine disruptors" since 1996, but currently does not issue guidelines to water treatment plants for allowable levels of estrogenic compounds.

Jeanne Bailey, a spokeswoman for Fairfax Water, said the findings are a concern.

[jordyn]

that is concerning, especially those who do not buy their water,

on the bright side, it may be a feasible and easily enacted way for population control?   

[Shadowborn]

The health department here in Spokane has issued warnings about our own river. Due to the contamination of the water, they advise that people who fish in the river eat no more than one serving of fish caught there per month in order to maintain current health standards. Yet there are Ukranian immigrants who fish in that river almost daily in order to supplement what they make to support their families. Kids swim in that river all summer long. Me, I wouldn't jump in that river if I were on fire...

[jordyn]

montana's going the same way...the water's always the first to go.

it may be a feasible and easily enacted way for population control?

The scary thing is that it would do that, but it wouldn't work in an unnoticeable way like birth control pills - the excess estrogen would instead cause women to develop male characteristics - hairy bodies, atrophied breasts and external genitalia (except for the clitoris which would become like a thumb) and infertility as the ovaries atrophied and failed. In men, we would see shrinking genitalia, development of breasts, obesity and infertility as the testes shrank and failed.

An excess of estrogen in women causes their endocrine system to massively overcompensate by producing testosterone...

Also, in female children we would expect to see menstruation beginning much much earlier and precocious sexuality.