Author Topic: A different approach to the devil.  (Read 2585 times)

Lord Pisces luffy
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A different approach to the devil.
« on: August 26, 2010, 09:30:57 PM »
We are all familar with the story of how lucifier was casted out of heaven after a failed rebellion.

Lucifier, or now known as Satan is now the great evil of the world and all that.


However, what would be the point of keeping him around exactly?

A theory:  Satan is the doorman.

God wants Satan to attempt to change people to sin.  This is the test of "free will".

God is using Satan as a way to test people without interfering himself.
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Levinthross

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 02:34:43 AM »
isnt this a major beleif of the jewish faith??
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jordyn

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2010, 05:41:41 AM »
actually...satan was originally a tempter, sort of like God's prosecuter, lucifer and satan aren't originally the same spirit any more than satan and the serpent in the garden...it's mostly judaism but like all good things polluted by the machinations of man, it's a confusing mess of deities, dogma and popular media.
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Lord Pisces luffy
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2010, 08:43:33 AM »
Would this make the devil not inheritly evil then in this approach?
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matthew321

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2010, 09:00:29 AM »
This is a belief I have had for a long time. Satan is not exactly evil for no reason he has a purpose. He isn't really "evil" either in my opinion. If Satan is just filling a role then he is just doing his job. I do not view that as evil or wrong.

Now let's say the angels that got kicked out of heaven with him had a separate motive for their rebellion. They had resided in one place, doing a single role. How can they be so sure they even have free will? Perhaps rebelling from god is the only way to insure your will is separate from god's. So then who is wrong here?
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bhambrice
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2010, 12:35:03 PM »
actually...satan was originally a tempter, sort of like God's prosecuter, lucifer and satan aren't originally the same spirit

Are you saying that Lucifer is in Hell and Satan is free to roam the earth?

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2010, 03:54:07 PM »
actually...satan was originally a tempter, sort of like God's prosecuter, lucifer and satan aren't originally the same spirit

Are you saying that Lucifer is in Hell and Satan is free to roam the earth?

  Actually this aught to help you with understanding.  Be sure to read it all though or you might miss something.
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bhambrice
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2010, 01:54:01 PM »
I understand that in Genesis, the serpent   "talks", has intelligence, knowledge and envy or hate for the humans. This envy made the serpent  to cause the "Fall of man". He was created by God (humanoid looking creature)  and was condemned  after the fall to crawl around on his belly.
I also understand that Lucifer was cast down to earth. The word  satan (adversary) is used to denote a being looking for people to test their devotion to God. Only after Christ did Satan, Devil and Lucifer become synonymous.
Again, I ask is Lucifer (Ruler of Hell and the King of the Earth )  a separate fallen angel from Satan in some theories?

jordyn

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2010, 07:56:43 PM »
actually a tempter is a good thing, he weeds out the weak and the truly faithful can prove they are indeed, loyal.

there is no theory they are the same, that's another screw up by king james!

http://www.differencebetween.net/miscellaneous/difference-between-lucifer-and-satan/

i tell you, in this department the jews have it!
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bhambrice
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2010, 02:20:06 PM »
Now I understand what you were saying! The same principle that Jesus was not Jesus in Heaven. He was another archangel. Lucifer and Jesus are brothers. We don't know his angelic name. But when he was transformed into an  human his form changede and he became Jesus.  So when Jesus talked to  Satan it was a spiritual/ mental talk, not a physical one on one talk?

Zeppelin
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2010, 09:10:43 AM »
In my opinion Satan and Lucifer and the Serpent are the same.  Angels have the ability to show themselves as different things.  The fact that God made this serpent 'crawl upon the earth on his belly'  doesn't mean that it was a humanoid creature.   Its common in folklore that stories try to explain the unexplainable and by using that, they can explain why all snakes/serpents have no arms and legs.

I'm not exactly sure how Lucifer got the name Satan..  My only opinion would be he wanted to seperate himself from the name god gave him and make a new name so he could be differentiated.  But they all have to be the same being.

jordyn

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2010, 01:31:51 PM »
In my opinion Satan and Lucifer and the Serpent are the same.  Angels have the ability to show themselves as different things.  The fact that God made this serpent 'crawl upon the earth on his belly'  doesn't mean that it was a humanoid creature.   Its common in folklore that stories try to explain the unexplainable and by using that, they can explain why all snakes/serpents have no arms and legs.

I'm not exactly sure how Lucifer got the name Satan..  My only opinion would be he wanted to seperate himself from the name god gave him and make a new name so he could be differentiated.  But they all have to be the same being.

read some Judaic lore, it'll clear a lot up for you...that the three are one is a gross misunderstanding and ignorance of the original sources and rise of current dogma derived from greco roman religion.

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/world/christ/xt-ibel2.htm

however there's so much discussion and debate on who or what the serpent was or symbolized that i doubt the experts have any idea themselves.

and ummm...as for jesus before during and after his life i have my own ideas and perceptions, they don't make Lucifer and Jesus brothers or even  lucifer and satan one in the same, just the prosecutor hoping to prove the divine son was not worthy of the position that was placed upon him, that's what satan has done since his and our inception.

http://preachersfiles.com/matthew-41-11-jesus-is-tempted-by-satan/
"The world that God made is inherently comprised of relationships, symmetries, analogia, anagogy, poetic wisdom. Thus is the language of symbolism."

Zeppelin
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2010, 08:52:45 PM »
I'll check it out.  I've always been taught that they were all the same.  It doesn't actually say anywhere that the serpent was Satan or Lucifer,  but I mean i always thought it was just implied.  I mean the serpent tempts Eve by lying to her and its said that Lucifer is the father of lies so technically the serpent spoke the first lie so therefore Lucifer= The Serpent. 

As far as Satan and Lucifer being the same i have no idea.  I always assumed they were one in the same but it does raise a question why Lucifer was renamed.   I mean Lucifer translates into something about light.  After being thrown into Hell a place of darkness he could no longer be known as Lucifer..?

jordyn

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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2010, 09:23:12 PM »
being taught isn't the same as exploring it yourself...and despite most christians denying the heritage to have a true understanding of christianity, it's dogma and where most of the core beliefs, including their demonology are derived from...i still stand by my statement you need to understand the jewish view of god, heaven and hell to understand the more human based complexity Jesus brought to the scene.

and the serpent didn't lie to eve, it misled her...actually it told her the truth, just not the reasoning for it.
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Zeppelin
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Re: A different approach to the devil.
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2010, 09:43:24 PM »
Yah.  I haven't really been that religous all my life but i want to learn as much as i possibly can.  Even though i am generally christian in my beliefs, i hope learn a majority of religions at least a general over view.  I haven't even considered learning about Judaism at this oint because i'm just at the tip of the ice berg for christianity and folk lore and what not.