Author Topic: Black holes  (Read 2230 times)

matthew321

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Black holes
« on: January 22, 2010, 05:44:12 PM »
Well I have had a lot of debate over this one and I shall need more before my hunger is satisfied!

Black holes are holes in the fabric of the universe. They are comprised of anti matter. Now they don't get any bigger or smaller and are thought to possibly lead to the other side of the same universe or a different one all together.

I have heard and have come to believe a black hole is comprised of anti matter and any matter that goes in will become really small (about the size of an atom). Because we know energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transfered. Since light does not escape a black hole I have to assume it is not destroyed. Either compressed or the density holds it in.

So let's hear why I am right or how I am completely wrong about what we cannot actually prove or disprove.
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KubeSix

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2010, 01:06:03 AM »
I just noticed this in one hell of a post, so I won't be angry if you don't read it. Consider it food for thought for when you're bored and feel like learning a bit more. :wink:

I love this subject, so I'll try to elaborate, fix errors and add in what I can:

Black holes are holes in the fabric of the universe.

No. Black holes are in fact a deformation in the time-space continuum, but not a hole. (In fact, any form of gravity (gravity being created by mass) is such a deformation.)

They are comprised of anti matter.

No. They are made of dark matter which is not the same as antimatter. I'll try to differentiate:

Dark matter is basically an undetectable mass in the universe. (Undetectable by the radiation it emits, that is.) It is also what astronomers call the "missing mass" of objects. In astronomy, objects are more massive than they should be. That's where the theoretical dark matter comes from. A mass that is undetectable, yet is responsible for the majority of the mass in the objects we observe.

Antimatter is matter composed of positively-charged electrons (Positrons; electrons are usually negatively-charged.) and negatively-charged protons (Antiprotons; they're usually positively-charged.) When antiprotons and protons come in contact, they annihilate, which means they turn into energy. They create E=mc2 Joules of energy, in fact. So take 1g of antimatter (Antihydrogen being the most economic and easiest to make, although still extremely costly and long to create.) and 1g of matter and you get 2g times the speed of light squared Joules of energy. That, my friends, is a nuclear explosion about 2,046 times the size of the one at Nagasaki. You see why they can't be made of antimatter? They'd go boom.

Now they don't get any bigger or smaller

Oh, but they do (I'll explain later...), but most importantly, they vary in mass since they swallow mass. And mass is directly proportional to gravity. So if a black hole keeps growing in mass, it becomes an even greater gravitational monster and gets even more mass swallowed. It's a vicious circle. Basically, a natural machine designed to destroy everything and feed on that destruction to become even more destructive.

and are thought to possibly lead to the other side of the same universe or a different one all together.

No. Black holes are just extremely massive and so are areas in the universe with huge gravitational fields. Guess what happens when you go to the center of such a gravitational field, one that grows exponentially with the mass it swallows? Well since it keeps the mass of whatever it swallows, it's only logical to assume whatever goes to the center of a black hole is squished. Same as sending something down into an abyss: they implode from the pressure. In the case of a black hole, they implode from the gravity. So that "other universe" we've all at one point dreamed of as kids is just a fraction of a second of utter pain from your body being turned to a tiny meatball and, well of course, instant death.

any matter that goes in will become really small (about the size of an atom).

Wait. You're made of billions of atoms. How can billions of atoms become the size of one atom? They can't, unless you break down the subatomic particles into their smaller building blocks. So what happens is that matter gets crushed to its smallest possible size (There's space between every atoms in your body. When you go in a black hole, that space is reduced to zero. Same for any matter.) So it becomes the size of billions of atom in direct contact with each other. Which is still extremely small, so it doesn't really matter anyway... So you see why they grow in size? It might be very slowly, but they still do. billions of atoms at a time, of course. (And I say billions, but it's probably trillions, quadrillions or even quintillions. Hell, it's probably googles of atoms... (Yes, google is a number. 10100, to be exact. That's 1 with 100 zeroes following. And a googleplex is 10google. Which is 1 with a google of zeroes following.) KUBE, SHUT UP WITH THE MATH, ALREADY!!!

There ya go, I did as you asked. :-D

Like Ladygriffin said, there's one at the center of our galaxy (and at the center of every galaxy, actually) and eventually, it will eat us up. Since it keeps growing in gravitational power, it'll just get increasingly powerful at an increasing speed. Luckily, we'll be long gone when that happens.
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

Raziel
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Re: Black holes
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2010, 06:15:33 AM »
Hehe, Event horizons are the point where the deformation  "pinches" space time.

Lets see, I assume you are familiar with the rubber sheet view of space time right?  Lets use latex this time.

Pretend that space time( 3d space) is a massive condom sheet stretched out with a near infinite stretchability yet with a supple elasticity that keeps things held together., put a wooden ball on it, it and you can see how it deforms and how it would attract other objects to it if  objects were on said sheet. however if a sufficiently with sufficient momentum is rolled over the sheet, it would escape the dip right?

That is gravity................and the relationship of speed to mass to energy.

Now imagin a metal ball bearing.... imagine that it weighs down the sheet  long enough that it seems to disappear from sight, like its made a bag.... the entrance is "pinched" thus excluding itself from  the rest of space time.. That is how a black hole works,  because of its immense mass,  it makes  escaping from it impossible, and the closer one gets to the hole, the throat, the vagina, whatever you might wanna call it, the greater the disturbance on the sheet, and when it gets to the hole................ well it falls through and is removed from the observable universe staying in that small pocket.


The event horizon is actually a visual term,  Look at a wall at the end of a hallway.. look at the direct center.  see how it  is central to everything? that is an event horizon or how one would look... so to speak.

Now, when speaking  about black holes,  imagine that that wall+hallway, extended everywhere, that every path led to that wall,  and from that wall all you could see was itself.

Event horizons work by bending space and time (3d space+ time) back upon itself due to its immense mass, twisting physics into a nightmare.

It is the boundary from which light cannot escape, simply because light works (theoretically speaking) as quanta or light energy particles moving at the fastest possible speed without disturbing space time, Like you see a still pond. ripples are disturbances and to move on it would introduce  forces which would cause things to move, and hence make travel from water particle a to water particle b from a straight line to a game of tag.,...... with the disturbance you are causing particle b to move away from you.

Light cannot escape because gravity would cause the light's path to curve back into itself.


Oh, and Kube? dark matter may not be the cause of black holes....... We just need sufficiently massive(heavy) objects to start a gravitic collapse.

Remember neutron stars? they are stars made of super hot neutrons. Neutrons that are made because the gravitiational pull of the body, caused protons and electrons to fuse while not being heavy enough to cause space time warping. They have passed Chandrasekhar's limit, died in a class 2 supernova, yet did not have above 20 solar masses(sun weights) ergo did not fold into themselves. They have passed the state of electron degenerate matter because they were obsese! lolololol





So to make things simple for all you people who need sanity intact, a black hole is a fat guy fat enough to fall into himself.


Alright? :banplea:












 
The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow becomes.
But donít be afraid. And donít forget...
You hold the mightiest weapon of all.
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onishadowolf

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2010, 06:33:32 AM »
Yes very good Kube. Finally someone with some knowledge.
-The shadows connect us all-

onishadowolf

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2010, 06:39:31 AM »
Raz that was the strangest analogy ever, but it works though.
-The shadows connect us all-

KubeSix

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2010, 11:36:22 AM »
Oh, and Kube? dark matter may not be the cause of black holes....... We just need sufficiently massive(heavy) objects to start a gravitic collapse.

Remember neutron stars? they are stars made of super hot neutrons. Neutrons that are made because the gravitiational pull of the body, caused protons and electrons to fuse while not being heavy enough to cause space time warping. They have passed Chandrasekhar's limit, died in a class 2 supernova, yet did not have above 20 solar masses(sun weights) ergo did not fold into themselves. They have passed the state of electron degenerate matter because they were obsese! lolololol

Forgot about that. If an object is made essentially of matter, gets massive enough and collapses onto itself, it won't suddenly become dark matter... Bad Kube, very bad! No cookie for you! Ahem... Thanks for correcting me :P
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matthew321

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2010, 04:30:24 PM »
Well I think I just proved that we indeed needed a new topic here... Yes I probably mixed up black holes with worm holes... But as for leading into other parts of the universe or other ones I think it is plausible. I would not want to be stuck in one forever. I have to assume that if it is capable of sucking in light and matter then perhaps inside it contains its own little world.

I doubt we will really know for sure unless we venture into one. (I believe we have sent drones but they lose signal instantly)
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KubeSix

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2010, 05:26:43 PM »
Well I think I just proved that we indeed needed a new topic here... Yes I probably mixed up black holes with worm holes... But as for leading into other parts of the universe or other ones I think it is plausible. I would not want to be stuck in one forever. I have to assume that if it is capable of sucking in light and matter then perhaps inside it contains its own little world.

I doubt we will really know for sure unless we venture into one. (I believe we have sent drones but they lose signal instantly)

We've never sent anything close enough to a black hole to be sucked into it. Mainly because it would be A) a waste of money and B) extremely long; if there were black holes close enough to send a drone, Earth would've already been sucked into one.

But yeah, this section needed a new topic :P
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.

Raziel
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Re: Black holes
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2010, 08:20:09 PM »
Astral projection. Ya see, it is theorized that spirits if they exist, do outside Euclid space and hence not susceptible to time/space. while they can interact with it to some degree, most of it passes through, So a sufficently powerful spirit might be able to explore the twisted 3d space inside one without being subject to the enormous tidal forces that would mess up most physical matter.


Feather, Its like this, in a universe as a bed, gravity would be how big a  crater your presence on it would make. a black hole would make a deep enough small hole to make a bag.

The event horizon is where the bag closes. Ya dig?


Kube, THere is the matte of hawking radiation ya know. Remember anything about it? Theoretical perhaps but stephen hawking iz da man!!!!
The closer you get to light, the greater your shadow becomes.
But donít be afraid. And donít forget...
You hold the mightiest weapon of all.
-Kingdom Hearts

KubeSix

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Re: Black holes
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 08:51:04 PM »
I heard of it once, but I'm not sure if I remember it all well... Something about black holes emitting radiation and so losing mass over time. Theoretically, of course, but yeah, this is Hawking we're talking about and if someone knows what he's doing, it's him. I didn't remember it when I wrote the above post, but yeah, that would mean that they lose mass. Although chances are they probably suck up enough mass to make up for that loss.
Seek not beauty in battle. Seek not beauty in death. Consider not your own life. If you wish to protect that which must be protected, then strike when your opponent's back is turned.