"does everyone go to heaven?"

[jordyn]

it seems a pretty straightforward question, going from a contemporary christian approach...but historically, biblically and traditionally; who goes where, how does it happen and how do you explain the claim to past lives?

[Raziel]

Perhaps the whole Jesus ascension thing was meant to be taken litterally?

Ascending to the sky sounds like an abduction ^_^

but seriously though, if we take the kundalini/surat shabd yoga view, reincarnation happens because said person is not "unlighted" enough to ascend planes.
In this view there are 4 planes/grand divisions of existance.

Pinda- us
Anda- lowest of the heavens which is discribed as the powerhouse of the physical universe.
Brahmanda- place where bram/gods/allah-yahweh-spaghetti monster  resides. this was thought to be the highest point of existence by the old rishis (accd to the wierd book i got)

And

Sat Desh- translation, true country. plane of pure spirit, indescribable, infinite, incomprehensible to the human mind, Seat of the Creator. blah blah blah.(insert dictionary of praises here)


Basically, dem pplz dat meditate and study from a mashta (yesh  i iz mutilatingz me wurdz on purpoze)
dey, get real good at dis stuff and touch wan plase an go ap.

Our wurld dey sey is da place wit da baad juu juu.

That is to say the place with the densest matter. and the way to ascension is the denial of self by good works, and thoughts as these " deflate the ego" or something.


Of course i could be wrong. can a real follower of this thought-school please stand up? I don't wanna hafta read the book to give nina answers.   

[Nina]

I think that eventually, everybody does. We go trough circles (reincarnation) until we learn what we are supposed to (insert Raz words here) and then we go to upper level.... or something like that. 

[Raziel]

I think nina's loopy 
(don't worry we still love you..... you crazy alien-conspiracy theorist  nut job ^_^)

[Rainbow]

Correct me if Iam wrong, someone told me once that reincarnation goes through the 12 different zodiac signs. He told me that once you arrive to sign Pisces, your soul does not return to reincarnate. Then the soul move to the next level.

[Raziel]

My friend. people have different ways of interpreting a single idea.


For example, people believe that if you've accumulated enough karmic debt, you turn into an animal.(in your next life)
And some people, just for the heck of it decide that reincarnation turns you into a strand of the spaghetti  monster. but then again. Bleh.

Whatever you believe, one thing is certain.
None of us really have a clue.  those who say otherwise have their own beliefs and i think they should also start believing that the crusades were a successful assault against the Islamic religious in defense of the holy land, and not a politically motivated campaign by inbred politicians masquerading as men of the cloth against the ottoman empire. (Yes i know the first one was a sucess and all, but think about the children!!.........'s crusade)

[Nina]

I think nina's loopy 
(don't worry we still love you..... you crazy alien-conspiracy theorist  nut job ^_^)

Well, thank you... I guess.... 

And that is sure, we cannot know for sure until we get there. We can have faith and instinct, but that isnt enough for some... thus they feel alone and like there is nothing after... I pitty them, really.

[jordyn]

i don't think hindus are that big on astrology

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/karma.htm

at least not how the west has come to embrace it.

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-zodiac.htm

astrology has everything to do with where the stars, were when  you were born nothing about when or  where you die  and it really has very little to do with the concept of heaven.  if we were talking nirvana then there'd be a connection, but neo pagan incarnate beliefs are absolutely nothing like the eastern culture they stole it from.

[Nina]

Oh, my dear, but you are wrong. There is no older nor more exact astrology than Jotish.


Ok made a new topic about Jotish astrology

[Loki]

I think there are many astrological systems but it is hard to say which one appeared first - probably the vedic one.

[Nina]

Yes, thats the Jyotish one.

[Ryobi]

You know, if karma exists as the means to how you will be reincarnated and karma is based on what you do and your own will then that means it can be warped. If we figure out exactly how much good karma is needed to end up as 'what' then we could come back as whatever we want to.

I'm gonna come back as a mumbai taxi driver, no! Linda Goodman.. wait! A tree  .

[Raziel]

You know, if karma exists as the means to how you will be reincarnated and karma is based on what you do and your own will then that means it can be warped. If we figure out exactly how much good karma is needed to end up as 'what' then we could come back as whatever we want to.

I'm gonna come back as a mumbai taxi driver, no! Linda Goodman.. wait! A tree  .

Perhaps since karma is partially based on self perception, we can't use the "ive done enough, let me in " card. it  might even give us a negative effect for trying to manipulate the universal cycle of souls or something ^_^

[Ryobi]

Well if you want to use karma to get to heaven but I don't know if that choice lies with us. The notion of heaven is very different to the notion of reincarnation, it doesn't seem to fit together, unless there is a way to accumulate so much good karma that you are reincarnated as a heavenly body...?

[Daemonin]

Reincarnation can work with "heaven" in the sense that one can reincarnate time and time again until they reach their potential to go to "heaven."