Monstrous
Witches Brew => Pagan Living => Topic started by: Devious Viper on July 03, 2006, 05:17:01 PM
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A pagan carrying her sacred knife has been arrested for possessing an offensive weapon. Debbie King, Arch Druidess of the Insular Order of Druids in Portsmouth, was arrested at Fareham Magistrates Court for carrying a five-inch blade. Miss King was dressed in her regular clothes but handed security officers a bag containing all her Druid accessories, including the sheathed knife known as an athame. When she went to collect the bag later she was kept waiting for an hour before two police officers arrived and arrested her.
Miss King, 44, said she had the Druid kit with her as she was due to carry out a television interview later in the day, and didn't know if she would have time to return home and collect her belongings after supporting a family member in court.
Miss King, of Furze Lane, Milton, Portsmouth, said: "It would have the same status as a crucifix to Christians. It represents truth, honour, justice and protection. I was told if I signed a disclaimer and gave up the athame I would just be given a caution, but I had to stand my ground. If it was just for me I wouldn't mind so much, but it's for all the other pagans who carry a knife – this could create a precedent."
King Arthur Pendragon, Battle Chieftain of the Council of British Druid Orders, is vowing to fight for Miss King's right to carry her knife. King Arthur, who was cleared at court in 1996 for carrying his broadsword, said: 'If it goes to court, I'll defend it to the hilt. I think it's ridiculous – we've proved time and time again in court that it's only for ceremonial reasons.'
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MEANTIME, THE LAW AS IT APPLIES TO EVERYBODY ELSE.....
A national knife amnesty has been announced by Home Secretary Charles Clarke in a bid to halt the rise in crimes involving the weapons. Mr Clarke said the project, to allow people to hand in weapons without fear of prosecution, would run for five weeks this summer, starting on 24 May.
Police forces throughout England, Scotland and Wales will be involved.
Mr Clark said tackling knife culture, particularly among young people, was "paramount" to community safety. He said: "The message of this campaign is simple - carrying knives on the streets will not be tolerated. Every weapon handed in during the amnesty will be a weapon that cannot be used in crime." He added: "Anyone with a knife, or other offensive weapon that might be used to cause fear and distress on our streets should take this chance to get rid of it."
So... Should witches, wiccans, druids, pagans, whatever be allowed to carry their "symbolic" weapons, while the remainder of the populace faces a hefty fine or prison for doing so? And what if I was to argue that as my branch of Christianity does not revere the crucifix, but instead, say, the pilum, the Roman soldier's seven foot long spear? Should I then be allowed to carry it?
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No! Knives should not be allowed. Neither should guns, swords, or anything else that would be classified as a 'weapon' unless one has a 'carry' permit.
I have a small pocketknife. I bought it to carry in my purse as it's useful to open things sometimes. If I needed a weapon for self defense it might be better than nothing. I don't know..... it's not very big and I don't think I'd depend on it.
However, it is against the law for me to take it into most public places and certainly government offices and courthouses. I simply take it out of my purse and leave it at home. If I was searched for some reason and it was found I would be charged with 'carrying a concealed deadly weapon.'
I am Christian and I can wear a cross necklace, bracelet or ring. Wiccans can wear pentagram jewelry.
It's ridiculous to think that someone is fighting to be allowed to carry a knife with a five inch blade! If I saw someone with such a weapon I'd turn and go the other way. It would be very intimidating and I can't understand why this woman feels the need to push her athame on the public when a) it's illegal, and b)people would be feel extremely uncomfortable and threatened by her.
~Morticia
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It seems like i'm gonna go around trying to revive old topics(even with half assed reasoning and comments it seems) today so What The Hell. Lets see how i'll get stomped on this one.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :banplea:
Ahem. knives are dangerous i'll give you guys that. but come on! a simple thing lke a knife ban isn't gonna change things.
The intent is the most dangerous thing a person can have. A person can kill you with a bloddy cheap ass pen!!! or about 1.5 feet of high tension really thin steel wire. a vase. a mirror. or even sharpened tooth brushes, coins & rocks, fingernails are lethal.
Btw the 2nd most dangerous is the brain. and 3rd is improvization.
if mugging some one was your game then i has never been easier. then have you even taken into consideration how easy it is to make a make shift pipe bomb, shotgun. or to even get one illegally these days?
The instructions are all on the net!. any idiot who has access to an I-cafe could get the instructions and copy them down in a note book.
while a 5 inch knife is intimidating. less violent methods could be used such as cloroform.
And while they are quite dangerous they are carried in the bags. not around the body as a ready weapon.
And while rare. tiny pistols and bullet pens are available to hit men as they have been around since world war 2.
not to mention all the other usefull assasination techniques and stuff.
a pocket knife is useless in a fight. your fists,knees, and teeth would be more effective. It is next to nothing in terms of intimidation unless the guy is afraid of you opening a bottle of chardonay in the middle of a conflict.
Its blade is only use full if you manage to stab the guy in a vulnerable area. such as the neck the . whereas a bite could be more effective. its cutting power is next to nil and jackasses who try to mug you carry much deadlier stuff such as a broken bottle.
and once the element of surpirse is lost then deffence using a tiny knife while in untrained hands is less than zero.
Pluss ad to the fact that most hooligans are large. oafish brutes who have a slowpoke's( the poke mon) pain reception capability.
many many effective ways of killing or robbing someone have been made. a knife ban will only agrivate things.
Plus the only people who probably turned in thier stuff were those who carried themin self defence and ritual purposes anyway.
So the ones that lost thier weapons are the ones who probably needed protection
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That said i have no suggestions to alternatives.
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The long shaft of a crucifix can be sharpened down to a point and used to stab people. So, why aren't they collecting these? No, this woman's right to practice her religion freely has most certainly been infringed upon. If I saw someone come at me with a five inch blade I would not fear them in the slightest, mainly because unlike most morons today, I understand that if you want to never fight, you have to know how. I can't tell you guys how many times I walked home late at night, followed for at least part of the way by people who then turned and ran when I turned and came at them! This is all you need: a modicum of self confidence, a good amount of know-how, and the complete dedication to the preservation of your life, loved ones, and property. Criminals will flee from these people, just look at all the videos on the 'net where the crooks flee from convenience store owners wielding baseball bats or guns when they too have firearms!
An athame is a religious object, it is not a weapon. I pity the pagan who uses their athame to commit a crime.
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yay!! i'm winning a long dead debate who never had any takers yill now and moloch is backing me up!
W00t!!!!!
(blame sugar. today i have too much free time and energy. choco spesifically.)
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First of all, to those who seem to think that "wiccans should just wear jewelery" and "a knife is not a religious symbol", you are showing a terrible amount of ignorance. Even if I didn't know that an Athame was in fact a very important pagan symbol, I still would not make such broad statements as those.
Now, I understand here that you aren't supposed to bring a weapon of any kind into a Courthouse, and that some places have (albeit stupid) laws against carrying large weapons and such in public, but sometimes rules have to be taken with common sense. The Banning of a religious object such as an Athame is a violation of human rights regarding religious freedom and the freedom of personal expression, and should not be tolerated, nor should it be constitutional as a law.
Also, Moloch is right, people are becoming too paranoid about things which are very unlikely to happen. There's a serial killer who's killed 5 people so far and has been running around in the next town over for a few months, but while I am going to keep my eyes open, I'm not scared, the likelyhood of being attacked by a serial killer who strikes at that rate is extremely slim. At the same time, not many people are capable of killing, even when it has to happen. The kind of ignorant people who make such laws about Athames don't understand simple things like this, they assume killing a person is as easy as stabbing a punching bag, but it's not, people have inhibitions which society has ingrained even further, killing or even causing harm to another is not something you simply do. (stealing yes, and if you have bad character, you probably have a hard time not doing that)
And this isn't even really threatening in the first place, it's not as if she is carrying it around in plain sight, or will actually use it. It's a religious item which is kept with the other religious things, out of sight and out of combat. It's like if a christian were to have a heavy crucifix. That can be used as a deadly weapon easilly, and was used in the past in the Crusades (I think the guy's name was St. Othello or something), yet if a Christian carried it around, they would not be treated this way, and if they were, the offender would have little support in his defense. The problem here is that Pagans are a minority group and thus, it's easier for the ignorant and intolerant masses to pick on them.
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If anyone asked me to kill, maim, maul, beat..... well you get the point. themselves. i'd do it in a heartbeat as long as the person makes a legal document, allowing me to do so.
.........and yes, if you stab, slash in the right place, it is that easy. it has been proven that human beings are agressive by nature, and wish for conflct and competition.
They are also greedy, some even wish to "own" anothers life, be it by slavery or they take it by force(death)
Some people are just right bastards like that. :lol: