Monstrous

Witches Brew => Pagan Living => Topic started by: Levinthross on August 20, 2008, 07:51:51 AM

Title: born or taught
Post by: Levinthross on August 20, 2008, 07:51:51 AM
what are you guys's (wheew bad grammer) opinions on whether or not witches can be born, made by a already initiated witch or must study themselves.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Petling on August 20, 2008, 10:01:16 AM
I honestly don't know, I always got the impression that people with talent were born, but they must be taught to become full blown witches/wiccans/anything else. & if they ever tried teaching themselves, they make some mistake or other that ruins  their lives & they are lucky if they can go back to being "normal"
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Kadesh on August 20, 2008, 11:00:37 AM
 I agree with Pet to a certain extent. You're born with gifts and talents and such. But if you aren't taught to use them, they fall by the wayside and you never come to be whatever you were meant to be. Whether witch or not. You can be self-taught, I believe, but it's much harder and there are muuuuch greater risks involved.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Petling on August 20, 2008, 11:37:34 AM
Yeah, I'm always seeing shows where somebody makes a stupid mistake & it haunts them for quite a while, sometimes literally.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Levinthross on August 21, 2008, 02:46:59 AM
i agree somewhat seeing as im eclectic and i must teach myself alot of thing it is dangerous but much more informative than any false web search that could reall get you in trouble but as far as abilitys go i think that some of us are born with them or the potential to have abilityies but never express them and others just dont which woul explain lots of peoples general distain from magic. (and that folks was a run on sentence)
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Kadesh on August 21, 2008, 02:59:02 PM
 That's exactly why I prefer books to web searching. (and yes it was.)  *<:)
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Herne on August 31, 2008, 05:39:25 AM
I agree that some people are born with more talent than others, but all have to work to put it to good use.  I do however think that everyone has some degree of talent for witchcraft, its just the consensus that people with more talent become witches because of maybe an experience that they are more sensitive to would lead them to curiosity and down the wiccan path.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Blithe Spirit on September 10, 2008, 09:43:34 AM
I don't know if just anyone can be taught to be a witch. I don't know that everyone's cut out for it. It does take a certain amount of raw talant to get started on. Not everyone has the same talants... I could atempt something silly like sprinting but it wouldn't be pretty.  :wink: You gotta go with what you're good at.  :-)
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Petling on September 10, 2008, 11:58:32 AM
Yeah, that's pretty much what I think. *<:)
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Kadesh on September 10, 2008, 06:44:29 PM
 If you have some natural ability, I believe you can be taught to do something. But.. if you just suck at it in general, then you're SOL on the learning to do it part. You can be born into it OR taught to do it.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Daemonin on September 10, 2008, 07:21:26 PM
It's a little like what my art professor told my class.  You can teach anyone how to draw.  Whether or not they excel in it is different.  Some people have that natural knack while others have to work hard to make it work.  Either way, both know how to do their tasks, but the approach may be different and the quality may be different.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Levinthross on September 13, 2008, 01:19:20 AM
tank mous
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Levinthross on September 14, 2008, 11:41:54 PM
sry keyboard malfunction i had starbucks thank you
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Vince_03 on January 10, 2009, 11:03:10 PM
i think it's kind of both. many neopagans today either learned by themselves and some were just simply born as one, with paganism running in their families...
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Nagt Jagter on January 18, 2009, 09:43:16 PM
Magic is a gift of the dark master but its never free the price must be paid. And the trade off is never fair.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Vince_03 on January 18, 2009, 11:39:00 PM
magic isn't always dark, you know
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 19, 2009, 08:09:15 AM
but it always requires some of your soul to work.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: bridigid on January 19, 2009, 10:10:49 AM
I say that it is a little of both...

A person is born, either with the natural disposition to manipulate energy, or not.
If so, that person has to fine tune was was inborn, cultivate skill, learn discipline and fitness.

If not, a person can train to gain some ability and understanding.
How far that can reach depends on things like focus, discipline....

Neither have to do with....selling souls or any of that rubbish.

It is a part of the way the universe is,
neither good, or evil (though harm CAN be done through intent)...
like weather, or the seasons.

Bridigid

Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Vince_03 on January 19, 2009, 09:05:32 PM
but it always requires some of your soul to work.

well yes, but all forms of magic requires effort. it doesn't really have to be negative or anything. if a pagan practitioner, say a wiccan, would cast a spell or work some magic, he or she will think twice on whether doing it or not
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 23, 2009, 07:29:18 AM
if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: oldbill4823 on January 23, 2009, 07:55:16 AM
That is a deeply metaphysical question j that can only be answered by revealing our own particular world view.
Since these are just views, no matter how much we cherish or believe them, who can say what the real answer is?
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 23, 2009, 02:11:46 PM
that's the problem with vague statements of oppositions supported by nothing, a universal energy we all have a connection to and can connect to makes sense  in all realms of the metaphysical; animalism, theism, occultism...eliminate the energy pulsing through all living and spiritual things and then what's  left to manipulate, feed or support?

i'm rather rational with my irrationality...if i can make sense of it, it's graspable but until someone can support a statement and make an equal amount of sense then why should i accept it as a reasonable replacement for mine, without any energy to fire our neurons, trigger our thoughts literally giving us life we'd be, dead.

so, then...where does what keeps us going as humans come from and what alllows the supernatural to exist in our world?

there's proof everywhere that all living things have energy, even plants produce electrical impulses...so if science can say "it's there" why is it dependent on a world view, where else would our life force come from?

*this can even explain why some are gifted from birth and others have to work for it, it's highly plausible that some people are born with more of an attunement through something as simple as an  over abundance of dopamine that triggers an electrical current to a part of the brain that wouldn't be as active with out it.

energy makes sense, vince hit on it.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 23, 2009, 02:20:52 PM
or is spirit less offensive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul)

here's something more occult based...and less wiki

http://www.crystalinks.com/whatisasoul.html (http://www.crystalinks.com/whatisasoul.html)

no spiritual connections from the author...

http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/what_is_a_soul.htm (http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/what_is_a_soul.htm)
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: oldbill4823 on January 23, 2009, 02:38:16 PM
For me j my honest answer is 'i dont know'. 

I dont know what to call it or even what it truly is.
Sometimes i get the impression that i can work with it a bit but not all the time.

I mean I still have to put my bread in the toaster to make it turn brown.

So i've got a long way to go  before i feel i can say with any real knowledge what this thing really is and how it works in all its aspects.

So, i dont know.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 23, 2009, 10:08:42 PM
perhaps i just spend to much time reflecting on what makes us human to not ponder what makes my soul what it is and why i can do what i do.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Vince_03 on January 24, 2009, 09:18:38 AM
if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...

no, not exactly. they can call for help on other beings, say creatures from woodlands and other spirits, but even that requires effort
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 24, 2009, 02:51:13 PM
if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...

no, not exactly. they can call for help on other beings, say creatures from woodlands and other spirits, but even that requires effort

i've never had issues with your understandings of how things work.   either way energy is being drawn from others or you're giving some of your soul(personal energy that stimulates our life and allows us to be human.)to make your desires manifest.
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: Levinthross on January 26, 2009, 03:19:22 PM
and it is getting icy in here ok people can we stay on point here??? :focus:
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: SherlawkDragon on January 29, 2009, 04:43:47 PM
Magic is a gift of the dark master but its never free the price must be paid. And the trade off is never fair.
Satan is Rubbish, and so is the idea that you need to "sell your soul" to use innate abilities like magic.
if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?
thin air...
The energy does not come out of "Thin air", but is the energy of the universe, which is all around us.  Magic is simply the use of our innate ability to control it.
Do research please.

Anyway, now that I've got in my stab at that, back to topic: Magic is not inherrited, but learned (as everyone's said).  Though someone might have the innate- wait a second... this is exactly what everyone else has said.  Is there really anything else to say here?  Perhaps we should discuss what might be born into someone that might make magic easier?
Perhaps being a Therian/Were-creature would help, as you'd be more in touch with the natural world, or maybe a Vampire, as they'd have some natural experience with energy and stuff.  I know those are some lame starters, but hey, it's hard to come up with them on short notice. >!O
Title: Re: born or taught
Post by: jordyn on January 30, 2009, 06:53:58 AM
Magic is a gift of the dark master but its never free the price must be paid. And the trade off is never fair.
Satan is Rubbish, and so is the idea that you need to "sell your soul" to use innate abilities like magic.
if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?
thin air...
The energy does not come out of "Thin air", but is the energy of the universe, which is all around us.  Magic is simply the use of our innate ability to control it.
Do research please.

Anyway, now that I've got in my stab at that, back to topic: Magic is not inherrited, but learned (as everyone's said).  Though someone might have the innate- wait a second... this is exactly what everyone else has said.  Is there really anything else to say here?  Perhaps we should discuss what might be born into someone that might make magic easier?
Perhaps being a Therian/Were-creature would help, as you'd be more in touch with the natural world, or maybe a Vampire, as they'd have some natural experience with energy and stuff.  I know those are some lame starters, but hey, it's hard to come up with them on short notice. >!O

research?

so, you think people can take all this "universal energy" with no repercussions?

that explains global warming, damn witches!!!

what about ghosts, demons, and other entities, they all drain this universal energy, why if it's all an eternal  source of universal energy, when one does energy work if they don't have a way to replace it they become weak and sluggish, if it's a universal energy surely it's in great abundance to those who use it so that we don't have to go about preying upon others to get what we lack...your simple answer of a universal energy can explain why people can manipulate, use and abuse energy on a cosmic level, but why do psychic vampires need people to feed from, this universal energy is all around us?

where did that energy come from, how are mere humans able to work with it if they're not a form of energy ourselves...or is the creator god, giving us all a bit of His breath a more, accurate comparison?

as for on topic or not a discussion of energy is very on topic, perhaps those who are very human but have more of this "universal energy" in their own selves allowing them a talent that most have to suffer through?

perhaps before accusing me of not being well researched, you should understand all the ways a person that's not some supernatural creature can use energy to their own ends, at the point you can drain a person leaving them exhausted for two days while you have a high that sustains you and any parasites lingering about, can tap into another person an entire ocean away for energy exchanges with no universe involved just our self, then perhaps you  have a glimmer of hope that you  can tell me i have no clue what i'm talking about, especially in a realm that i've spent so much of my life using and abusing.

werewolf, devil or vampire, even they have energy one can feast upon...