magic isn't always dark, you know

[jordyn]

but it always requires some of your soul to work.

I say that it is a little of both...

A person is born, either with the natural disposition to manipulate energy, or not.
If so, that person has to fine tune was was inborn, cultivate skill, learn discipline and fitness.

If not, a person can train to gain some ability and understanding.
How far that can reach depends on things like focus, discipline....

Neither have to do with....selling souls or any of that rubbish.

It is a part of the way the universe is,
neither good, or evil (though harm CAN be done through intent)...
like weather, or the seasons.

Bridigid

but it always requires some of your soul to work.

well yes, but all forms of magic requires effort. it doesn't really have to be negative or anything. if a pagan practitioner, say a wiccan, would cast a spell or work some magic, he or she will think twice on whether doing it or not

[jordyn]

if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...

That is a deeply metaphysical question j that can only be answered by revealing our own particular world view.
Since these are just views, no matter how much we cherish or believe them, who can say what the real answer is?

[jordyn]

that's the problem with vague statements of oppositions supported by nothing, a universal energy we all have a connection to and can connect to makes sense  in all realms of the metaphysical; animalism, theism, occultism...eliminate the energy pulsing through all living and spiritual things and then what's  left to manipulate, feed or support?

i'm rather rational with my irrationality...if i can make sense of it, it's graspable but until someone can support a statement and make an equal amount of sense then why should i accept it as a reasonable replacement for mine, without any energy to fire our neurons, trigger our thoughts literally giving us life we'd be, dead.

so, then...where does what keeps us going as humans come from and what alllows the supernatural to exist in our world?

there's proof everywhere that all living things have energy, even plants produce electrical impulses...so if science can say "it's there" why is it dependent on a world view, where else would our life force come from?

*this can even explain why some are gifted from birth and others have to work for it, it's highly plausible that some people are born with more of an attunement through something as simple as an  over abundance of dopamine that triggers an electrical current to a part of the brain that wouldn't be as active with out it.

energy makes sense, vince hit on it.

[jordyn]

or is spirit less offensive?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul

here's something more occult based...and less wiki

http://www.crystalinks.com/whatisasoul.html

no spiritual connections from the author...

http://academics.vmi.edu/psy_dr/what_is_a_soul.htm

For me j my honest answer is 'i dont know'. 

I dont know what to call it or even what it truly is.
Sometimes i get the impression that i can work with it a bit but not all the time.

I mean I still have to put my bread in the toaster to make it turn brown.

So i've got a long way to go  before i feel i can say with any real knowledge what this thing really is and how it works in all its aspects.

So, i dont know.

[jordyn]

perhaps i just spend to much time reflecting on what makes us human to not ponder what makes my soul what it is and why i can do what i do.

if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...

no, not exactly. they can call for help on other beings, say creatures from woodlands and other spirits, but even that requires effort

[jordyn]

if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?

thin air...

no, not exactly. they can call for help on other beings, say creatures from woodlands and other spirits, but even that requires effort

i've never had issues with your understandings of how things work.   either way energy is being drawn from others or you're giving some of your soul(personal energy that stimulates our life and allows us to be human.)to make your desires manifest.

[Levinthross]

and it is getting icy in here ok people can we stay on point here???

[SherlawkDragon]

Magic is a gift of the dark master but its never free the price must be paid. And the trade off is never fair.

Satan is Rubbish, and so is the idea that you need to "sell your soul" to use innate abilities like magic.

if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?
thin air...

The energy does not come out of "Thin air", but is the energy of the universe, which is all around us.  Magic is simply the use of our innate ability to control it.
Do research please.

Anyway, now that I've got in my stab at that, back to topic: Magic is not inherrited, but learned (as everyone's said).  Though someone might have the innate- wait a second... this is exactly what everyone else has said.  Is there really anything else to say here?  Perhaps we should discuss what might be born into someone that might make magic easier?
Perhaps being a Therian/Were-creature would help, as you'd be more in touch with the natural world, or maybe a Vampire, as they'd have some natural experience with energy and stuff.  I know those are some lame starters, but hey, it's hard to come up with them on short notice. >!O

[jordyn]

Magic is a gift of the dark master but its never free the price must be paid. And the trade off is never fair.

Satan is Rubbish, and so is the idea that you need to "sell your soul" to use innate abilities like magic.

if it has nothing to do with our soul, where does the energy one needs to manipulate other energies come from?
thin air...

The energy does not come out of "Thin air", but is the energy of the universe, which is all around us.  Magic is simply the use of our innate ability to control it.
Do research please.

Anyway, now that I've got in my stab at that, back to topic: Magic is not inherrited, but learned (as everyone's said).  Though someone might have the innate- wait a second... this is exactly what everyone else has said.  Is there really anything else to say here?  Perhaps we should discuss what might be born into someone that might make magic easier?
Perhaps being a Therian/Were-creature would help, as you'd be more in touch with the natural world, or maybe a Vampire, as they'd have some natural experience with energy and stuff.  I know those are some lame starters, but hey, it's hard to come up with them on short notice. >!O

research?

so, you think people can take all this "universal energy" with no repercussions?

that explains global warming, damn witches!!!

what about ghosts, demons, and other entities, they all drain this universal energy, why if it's all an eternal  source of universal energy, when one does energy work if they don't have a way to replace it they become weak and sluggish, if it's a universal energy surely it's in great abundance to those who use it so that we don't have to go about preying upon others to get what we lack...your simple answer of a universal energy can explain why people can manipulate, use and abuse energy on a cosmic level, but why do psychic vampires need people to feed from, this universal energy is all around us?

where did that energy come from, how are mere humans able to work with it if they're not a form of energy ourselves...or is the creator god, giving us all a bit of His breath a more, accurate comparison?

as for on topic or not a discussion of energy is very on topic, perhaps those who are very human but have more of this "universal energy" in their own selves allowing them a talent that most have to suffer through?

perhaps before accusing me of not being well researched, you should understand all the ways a person that's not some supernatural creature can use energy to their own ends, at the point you can drain a person leaving them exhausted for two days while you have a high that sustains you and any parasites lingering about, can tap into another person an entire ocean away for energy exchanges with no universe involved just our self, then perhaps you  have a glimmer of hope that you  can tell me i have no clue what i'm talking about, especially in a realm that i've spent so much of my life using and abusing.

werewolf, devil or vampire, even they have energy one can feast upon...