Author Topic: The Threefold Law  (Read 9892 times)

Mr. Kreepy
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The Threefold Law
« on: December 19, 2008, 01:57:15 AM »
After hearing an extremely ignorant person mention this law, I decided to do some research on it.
It's a Wiccan teaching stating that, basically, whatever energy you put into the world, positive or negative, will be returned threefold. This assigns a literal reward to positive actions and a consequence to negative ones, as opposed to the abstract, personal conflicts associated with moral and immoral actions and the practical, real-life consequences of living a good life implied by the Wiccan Rede which states "An it harm none, do what ye will".
   Indeed, this has led to some conflict even within the religion of Wicca, as most see the Threefold Law as an unnecessary and entirely unfounded over-elaboration on the Rede.While both are based on moralistic abstractions and assumptions of objectivity on what is and isn't "moral", the Threefold Law is basically a real-world Heaven and Hell punishment/reward system for Wiccans.
   
Now, this got me thinking...As far as I know, Wicca is the only system of magick that uses this approach. There are so many different systems of magick and all of them are essentially just different approaches to focusing psychic energy, as any experienced follower of Psi will tell you. Because of the inherent limitations of following a confined system of belief, wouldn't it make sense that, in theory, only those who believe that the Threefold Law actually works would be effected by it?
   As someone who has no need for silly little limitations on what I'm capable of, I quite respect Aleister Crowley's teaching of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law", which means that one should not succumb to weaknesses on the path of attaining one's will. It stands to reason that moralistic constraints only apply if one chooses to limit themselves with them.
   
I am a student and seeker of knowledge concerning Psi, and I have always followed a practice of essentially paying up-front. That is, paying the price of my actions beforehand through the sacrifice of willpower, strength, and energy that is required to make what I want happen. Since I have payed the price of my actions before the act is committed, would I still be held accountable under the Threefold Law for doing something that some people consider morally reprehensible?

What are your thoughts?

Nina
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2008, 03:16:48 AM »
Maybe the Universe doesnt think you paid enough? And through what I read in this post, you dont really care for the threefold law, so if you dont believe it, would it apply to you? I dont know for sure, but something tells me that it does....

markus
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2008, 04:43:42 AM »
I have heard of this time and again and from talking to witchcraft  practitioners, I got the impression that it applied to all types but this is not by any means my area of expertise

If that is the case, I got a whole lot of good things coming back my way...still waiting  :?

Good topic 
What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?

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Mr. Kreepy
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2008, 05:08:13 AM »
Maybe the Universe doesnt think you paid enough? And through what I read in this post, you dont really care for the threefold law, so if you dont believe it, would it apply to you? I dont know for sure, but something tells me that it does....

If I may ask, why are you so convinced that the Law applies to someone who refuses to acknowledge its existence and validity? You forget that in the practice of magick a practicioner can only manifest that which they believe in.

I have heard of this time and again and from talking to witchcraft  practitioners, I got the impression that it applied to all types but this is not by any means my area of expertise

As far as I know, Wicca is the only path of magick that contains this concept, and most serious practicioners of Wicca actually dispute the validity of the Threefold Law. Chaos magick, Thelema, Voudoun, Native American medicine work, and hundreds of other forms of magick both modern and traditional lack this concept.

Nina
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2008, 05:20:20 AM »
Simply cause I believe that there is the Law, whether you are ready to acknowledge it or not. It just IS.....

markus
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2008, 05:33:29 AM »
Quote

As far as I know, Wicca is the only path of magick that contains this concept, and most serious practicioners of Wicca actually dispute the validity of the Threefold Law. Chaos magick, Thelema, Voudoun, Native American medicine work, and hundreds of other forms of magick both modern and traditional lack this concept.


You may be correct

Maybe they were all wiccan  :?, I know a few that are, but the rest I did not ask
What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?

We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no-one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One

Mr. Kreepy
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2008, 05:35:47 AM »
Simply cause I believe that there is the Law, whether you are ready to acknowledge it or not. It just IS.....

So you acknowledge that it's your personal belief?

You may be correct

Maybe they were all wiccan  :?, I know a few that are, but the rest I did not ask

Yes, magick is a very wide and diverse topic, with hundreds of different approaches. It's likely that the people you talked to were Wiccan.

markus
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2008, 05:52:04 AM »
One of them is a real close friend and I know they are wiccan
What do you want, you moon-faced assassin of joy?

We walk in the dark places no others will enter. We stand on the bridge and no-one may pass. We live for the One, we die for the One

Amaya

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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2008, 08:55:23 AM »
Simply cause I believe that there is the Law, whether you are ready to acknowledge it or not. It just IS.....
Belief without general proof of some sort is not enough to convince others of your views.


This is the first time I've heard of this but I am generally sure that it is false. I hold the belief that everything is within the world and nothing can be truly added or subtracted, just recycled in a neverending circle. This principle is already applied to many things in the world like matter or water. Why shouldn't it be applied here as well? (Yes, I know that if you want to get TECHNICAL this doesn't apply to everything ex. cut down a tree and you don't plant another. I mean basic things and general speaking here).

The closest thing to this law seems to be the belief in karma and it even doesn't believe in more gratitiude/punishment that what was inflicted. It believes in equal.

In the end, I don't really see it as believable or realistic.

Nina
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2008, 09:38:55 AM »
But I dont have the need to convince the others, that is why its called belief in the first place, and not fact. And I never said it was MY belief. The Law I see it is slightly different, and its more like what Jordyn said, than the Law of Three.....

Regina Terra

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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2008, 12:37:07 PM »
After hearing an extremely ignorant person mention this law, I decided to do some research on it.
It's a Wiccan teaching stating that, basically, whatever energy you put into the world, positive or negative, will be returned threefold. This assigns a literal reward to positive actions and a consequence to negative ones, as opposed to the abstract, personal conflicts associated with moral and immoral actions and the practical, real-life consequences of living a good life implied by the Wiccan Rede which states "An it harm none, do what ye will".
   Indeed, this has led to some conflict even within the religion of Wicca, as most see the Threefold Law as an unnecessary and entirely unfounded over-elaboration on the Rede.While both are based on moralistic abstractions and assumptions of objectivity on what is and isn't "moral", the Threefold Law is basically a real-world Heaven and Hell punishment/reward system for Wiccans.
   
Now, this got me thinking...As far as I know, Wicca is the only system of magick that uses this approach. There are so many different systems of magick and all of them are essentially just different approaches to focusing psychic energy, as any experienced follower of Psi will tell you. Because of the inherent limitations of following a confined system of belief, wouldn't it make sense that, in theory, only those who believe that the Threefold Law actually works would be effected by it?
   As someone who has no need for silly little limitations on what I'm capable of, I quite respect Aleister Crowley's teaching of "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law", which means that one should not succumb to weaknesses on the path of attaining one's will. It stands to reason that moralistic constraints only apply if one chooses to limit themselves with them.
   
I am a student and seeker of knowledge concerning Psi, and I have always followed a practice of essentially paying up-front. That is, paying the price of my actions beforehand through the sacrifice of willpower, strength, and energy that is required to make what I want happen. Since I have payed the price of my actions before the act is committed, would I still be held accountable under the Threefold Law for doing something that some people consider morally reprehensible?

What are your thoughts?
It isn't talking about Karma, it's talking about cause and effect, if you drop a pebble in a pond, it will cause ripples. If you piss someone off, they will get mad at you, cause and effect.

Also, just because Christians said the world was flat, didn't MAKE it flat, so no matter how much you refuse to acknowledge that your actions have consequences, that will come back to you, doesn't change the fact that they exist.
Gabriel, "Don't kill yourself for it would crush my angelic heart. I love you for who you are and I'm glad I met you. :]"

"I'm going to break him, and there will be blood."

Amaya

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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2008, 12:47:22 PM »
But I dont have the need to convince the others, that is why its called belief in the first place, and not fact. And I never said it was MY belief. The Law I see it is slightly different, and its more like what Jordyn said, than the Law of Three.....
That is true. If you are in a discussion though, it usually will just end up in circles of "I agree"/"I disagree" unless evidence and information are brought into the mix. That's all I was trying to say. This is going to become an argument fast otherwise (not between me or anybody, because I don't really feel passionately about the issue, just as a whole).

Daemonin

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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2008, 04:07:38 PM »
I would think the pay-out would be equal to what the overall goal is, not three times as much.  I can only see the threefold applying to those that follow it.  Why?  Because the human mind is such that if you believe enough in some sort of retribution for the actions you have taken, it will happen in your eyes because you are more likely to see it.

For example:  This stupid person I know of thought a friend of mine cursed her with zits.  She worried about it so much, that the next morning she had a zit and thought my friend (and indirectly me) caused it to happen, when in fact it was more or less just her lack of hygiene.  She really believed that she was cursed, and when the time came for that "curse" to be fufilled, she "saw" what she thought she would see.  (There was no curse involved)

In conclusion, if you believe you're gonna get hit threefold for something bad or something good, you're more than likely going to be looking for that bad or good, and can say, "Damn, I lost my job.  I shouldn't have cast that zit spell on that biznitch..." or, "OH, I found $20 on the sidewalk!  Must be because of that spell I cast on so-and-so to help him/her get some money! Lalala..."

I could be wrong, but that's what it seems to me.

Mr. Kreepy
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2008, 11:48:00 PM »
It isn't talking about Karma, it's talking about cause and effect, if you drop a pebble in a pond, it will cause ripples. If you piss someone off, they will get mad at you, cause and effect.

Also, just because Christians said the world was flat, didn't MAKE it flat, so no matter how much you refuse to acknowledge that your actions have consequences, that will come back to you, doesn't change the fact that they exist.


But all of this is based on the assumption that the natural effect of the actions coming back threefold. That's a huge leap of faith, and it's just not logical to take an assumption like that for granted.
Your comparison between the earth being thought of as flat and the supposed actuality of the Threefold Law is just further making assumptions and huge leaps in logic.

I would think the pay-out would be equal to what the overall goal is, not three times as much.  I can only see the threefold applying to those that follow it.  Why?  Because the human mind is such that if you believe enough in some sort of retribution for the actions you have taken, it will happen in your eyes because you are more likely to see it.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Good to see we're on the same page Dae.

Raziel
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Re: The Threefold Law
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2008, 02:57:42 AM »
I don't know about psi, but i sent a dog in a video game to retrieve some ammo. he ran off and brought back 3 giant mutated  crocodiles w/ Freddie Kruger hands.


I was level 5.  Upon realizing this, i tried to run....... i ran into a mine i placed there and it activated due to the angry demon crocs chasing me..  i died and it looked like they were corpse humping me.
 <:smurf
Oh and btw? my dog died somewhere along the time i crapped my shorts

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Deathclaw

Three fold law for sending a dog out for some ammo instead of doing it yourself? i don't wanna know.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2008, 03:20:00 AM by Raziel »
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