Fallen Angels/Satan and my Demon

[Nyxchild3]

 
So Ive always had dreams about Satan, he usually shows himself as my father. As in he calls himself that to me. When I seen him before, I was never scared of him. His eyes were always loving, even though scary. Then when I got into witchcraft, he changed. He no longer came to my dreams being kind to me, instead he was always very hateful and always trying to trick me. Here lately, I'm having dreams of the angels and demons warring. I'm always in the middle, unable to choose sides, yet always looking at it from a demonic point of view. Its more like I will not choose sides.
Tell me what you think of these dreams: Im walking to the park beside my road, when i get there I see these cults sacrificing animals and drinking their blood. It makes me made, because as a witch and using this park as my coven stead. Im upset to see other people violating it with acts I wont commit. I turn away from the scene, and a boy runs up to me. He is like "Why are you not participating?" I reply, "Because I do not have to." Hes like, "But you glow how do you glow without the gift of sacrifice?" I tell him then, "Come with me and I will show you." I take him away from the park, the action is a blur (N yes I know its nothing sexual) (The boy is my age). When I bring him back to the enterance, he walks the other way glowing and says "Thanks I dont need that no more."
I walk back into the park and see a girl, she brings me blood to drink but again I will not. I draw a symbol on her forehead and say, "When you give that up find me." I am then standing in my front yard, and I see a snake crawl up. It wraps itself around my leg, and bits into me. I see my power draining, while the girl from before gets stronger. I try all kinds of methods to get it off, all kinds of spells and gods. Finally I see myself standing on the black top, im talking to someone who is not there. "Satan if you are truly my father you will help me without expecting something in return. He says, "I will help you but I want something. That can be choose by you, and when you are ready." I say "Ok." So he tells me "go to the lake, I can only touch you now through water." So I go to the lake and step in. I see the snake turn to dust. A vision of the girl comes to me and I see her being dragged to hell. Then while Im still in the water this demon, who is a beautiful as an angel come out of the water to me. "Father said you needed help." He says. I reply, "Yes but it does not mean I am returning." He frown, "But why not we miss you I miss you." Im like, "A frown never did look good on you. Yet now I know why Im attracted to blue eyed blonde haired boys on earth." (The demon is blonde, with blue eyes) He smirks, "It is also why none of them can have you." I shrug. So he goes on, "I seen you have been frolicking with your betrothed. Remember, he did not choose you and you did not choose him you choose me." I step away from him, because I actually do care about him. "Im not returning, I have my place." He reaches out for me and says, "father also knows you are being kindred with the pagan gods, we can only hope in time with will come back to us." He turns and walks back into the water. I step out to where the lake only covers my feet and I say "To mark the day that my father helped me, and to remind me he will always be there. This lake will look like blood one night every year."

[jordyn]

Those dreams are actually pretty common for people teetering between two faiths, I'm impressed there's a distinct separation between the traditional ideas of satanic theism, polytheism and witchcraft, most people muddle them so awfully these days.

there's really not much advice to be given, you seem to have a pretty good grasp on what you want to pursue with your spirituality and when it all comes down to it, it depends on what sort of person you want to be, what you want in your life and how you want to get it. The dream characters may have a point in the fact you don't necessarily choose who or what comes to you, but being human YOU get to choose who and what influences you and your life.

The joys of freewill. 

[Nyxchild3]

Interesting part about me is i believe our souls all come from somewhere. What if this is a clue to mine?

[jordyn]

Interesting part about me is i believe our souls all come from somewhere. What if this is a clue to mine?

depends where you think souls come from, personally i think they're all part of a universal energy, however being contained in intelligent flesh sets us apart from other aspects of nature or supernature that also contain this energy. I don't think souls are formed in a heaven or hell, simply for the fact that heaven and hell weren't around until the Romans got involved with world religion and humanity has believed in a human afterlife before world religions ruled.

Despite what most people like to think, the version of demons and angels many people believe in today do come from dualistic religions, most being derived from Sumerian and Judaic spirits, fleshed out by early century priests translating the spirits of other religions they came across to suit their dogma, sort of like Christmas and Easter. 

A human soul will always be human in or out of the flesh, in my opinion and why i firmly believe nothing inhuman can ever control, contain or own it...unless we let them.  If we give them the power, we can take it away. 

[WinterHybrid]

Okay, That's just weird beyond belief.
I have been experiencing similar dreams recently.

[jordyn]

Going by angel/demon traditional lore, if there are serious changes coming at the end of this year, then the sides are ramping up for that war. *shrugs

I'm sure a lot of people will be experiencing changes in their consciousness, which may include more attunement with the supernatural, a shift in consciousness that will effect that world, to follow spiritual ideology, you have to accept that there's some Universal Energy connecting it all.

slightly off topic but the world is coming into the age of Aquarius, there's going to be a lot more weird universal shift stuff going on. 

*http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php?topic=13859.new#new

It's a fascinating topic actually.

So if there is this shift to universal enlightenment, more minds are opening, more things are gathering and survival may come down to how you attune your spiritual energy...especially if there's a whole lot more lining up then just planets.

[jordyn]

Going by angel/demon traditional lore

What lore? [Citation needed]

more minds are opening, more things are gathering and survival may come down to how you attune your spiritual energy...especially if there's a whole lot more lining up then just planets.

Alignments? "There are no planetary alignments in the next few decades and even if these alignments were to occur, their effects on the Earth would be negligible. One major alignment occurred in 1962, for example, and two others happened during 1982 and 2000. Each December the Earth and sun align with the approximate center of the Milky Way Galaxy but that is an annual event of no consequence." (Source:NASA)

i know loki isn't fond of links but www.newadvent.org/cathen/d.htm, straight from the catholic mouth, the malleus maleficarum, monstrous's own monstropedia, delirium's realm has a fantastic collection of their lore, and this tidbit from the Jewish encyclopedia...
..."influence of both the Chaldean and the Persian belief in good and evil spirits, and this dualistic system became a dominant factor of Jewish practice and belief."  king Solomon and his sigils, ceremonial magic, theistic satanism and other such magickal practices....
right down to the Sumerian legends from Lilith that gave birth to such stories as Grendel...devils, angels and the sort have been around a lot longer than your perceptions of imagination and reality.

people experience what they can't explain and as humanity evolved so did our beliefs in the supernatural, rather than saying it's all imagination perhaps you can offer a productive explanation for why people have experienced these things, since we became human rather than going the easy route and simply dismissing it as imagination?

before organization and rational came into the light, it was just animism.

anything constructive to offer?

[jordyn]

devils, angels and the sort have been around a lot longer than your perceptions of imagination and reality.

So, you are saying that imaginary creatures have been around longer than imagination?

rather than saying it's all imagination perhaps you can offer a productive explanation for why people have experienced these things, since we became human rather than going the easy route and simply dismissing it as imagination?

Michael Shermer, writing in the May, 2009 Scientific American, explained this very clearly:

Souls, spirits, ghosts, gods, demons, angels, aliens, intelligent designers, government conspirators, and all manner of invisible agents with power and intention are believed to haunt our world and control our lives. Why?

The answer has two parts, starting with the concept of "patternicity," which I defined in my December 2008 column as the human tendency to find meaningful patterns in meaningless noise. Consider the face on Mars, the Virgin Mary on a grilled cheese sandwich, satanic messages in rock music. Of course, some patterns are real. Finding predictive patterns in changing weather, fruiting trees, migrating prey animals and hungry predators was central to the survival of Paleolithic hominids.

The problem is that we did not evolve a baloney-detection device in our brains to discriminate between true and false patterns. So we make two types of errors: a type I error, or false positive, is believing a pattern is real when it is not; a type II error, or false negative, is not believing a pattern is real when it is. If you believe that the rustle in the grass is a dangerous predator when it is just the wind (a type I error), you are more likely to survive than if you believe that the rustle in the grass is just the wind when it is a dangerous predator (a type II error). Because the cost of making a type I error is less than the cost of making a type II error and because there is no time for careful deliberation between patternicities in the split-second world of predator-prey interactions, natural selection would have favored those animals most likely to assume that all patterns are real.

But we do something other animals do not do. As large-brained hominids with a developed cortex and a theory of mind—the capacity to be aware of such mental states as desires and intentions in both ourselves and others—we infer agency behind the patterns we observe in a practice I call "agent­icity": the tendency to believe that the world is controlled by invisible intentional agents. We believe that these intentional agents control the world, sometimes invisibly from the top down (as opposed to bottom-up causal randomness). Together patternicity and agent­icity form the cognitive basis of shamanism, paganism, animism, polytheism, monotheism, and all modes of Old and New Age spiritualisms...

There is now substantial evidence from cognitive neuroscience that humans readily find patterns and impart agency to them, well documented in the new book SuperSense by University of Bristol psychologist Bruce Hood. Examples: children believe that the sun can think and follows them around; because of such beliefs, they often add smiley faces on sketched suns. Adults typically refuse to wear a mass murderer's sweater, believing that "evil" is a supernatural force that imparts its negative agency to the wearer (and, alternatively, that donning Mr. Rogers'cardigan will make you a better person). A third of transplant patients believe that the donor's personality is transplanted with the organ. Genital-shaped foods (bananas, oysters) are often believed to enhance sexual potency. Subjects watching geometric shapes with eye spots interacting on a computer screen conclude that they represent agents with moral intentions.

"Many highly educated and intelligent individuals experience a powerful sense that there are patterns, forces, energies and entities operating in the world," Hood explains. "More important, such experiences are not substantiated by a body of reliable evidence, which is why they are supernatural and unscientific. The inclination or sense that they may be real is our supersense."

We are natural-born supernaturalists.

no, imagination is an exclusive human trait and we've had spirits since we discovered humanity, i'm refering to your personal perception that the subject matter of this board is imagination. I'm hoping for discussion on it, there's not much of a discussion if you state it's imagination but fail to follow up on how and why you can say things with such certainity, I actually agree with Michael Shermer...

He's not making simple statements "it's imagination"...so why do some people experience the supernatural and others don't?...i hope it doesn't come down to some have the ability to "imagine" and others don't, that's as disappointing as a cut and paste argument.

Personally i think it's the amount of certain chemicals that naturally occur in our brain that has some effect on our "supersense", if we're all "natural-born supernaturalists" why are some people not born prone to the supernatural or is it more of a nurture philosophy of experience that changes as we grow?

For whatever reasons, they've always been there for me...no matter what the archetype, what's there may have changed, but "It's" still there.

[jordyn]

i offered very clear citations for my statement of lores and i'm not disagreeing that a lot of it was created from the human mind from some primitive need to connect the dots, but i feel you dismiss the power of belief too easily.

atheism is on the rise, but so is a belief in the supernatural, it's just no longer contained by a religious organizations and as the interest continues to grow so will these sorts of issues. a balance between reality and unreality is admirable but without an understanding people struggling to find a balance between the two can go to dark and dangerous places, psychologically, some fail to have the strength to climb out or not fortunate enough that someone was there to catch them.

talking about the practical and impractical sides of this topic is good, i like the discussion...but it'd be nice to include those who are less confident in what they're brain is experiencing to come to their own understanding, as compared to those who've formed it for years over many arguments, both pro and con.