Witches Brew > Pagan Living

magick, men and the evil they can bring?

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jordyn:
i'll be the first one to pick the bones...there have been some interesting statements made, and i'd like to address them, from a less, selfish magickal point of view...

"Thats not true at all. I have control over where my life goes. I have control to say 'Today there will be sun, tomorrow there will be rain.' I am a mage. The world is our playground, regardless of what others say."

as a fellow practicioner of the arts, this concerns me...it seems you are seperating yourself from the world, placing yourself above the very things that make the impossible possible.

what if another person decides they want it to rain, when you want the sun?  Does it become a power struggle as to who has the most desire or the source that they derive their power from, who has the power to decree to nature what she can or can not do?

where does a mage derive his power from?

as a witch, i draw what i need from the earth, shape it with my mind, and set if free to do as i desire...trusting in that energy i shaped to bring to me what would be best, when my life is prepared to receive it...it's like a person wanting that absolute love, yet unable to understand the sacrifices required to keep it harmonious and sustaining...it's a wasted gift, like a blind person being given a dali print.

the essences, the energies, the subtle, incorporal sentineces that live in and around, creating the four elements...deserve some consideration, look at the world today, too see where the mindset of power without limitations creates.

that is evil...no matter who chooses to destroy or control that which they have no rights to destroy or control, forcing their will onto another, is just morally wrong...one doesn't need the bible, a clear definition of good and evil or an almighty god to distinguish what's right and wrong; living with others, observing and learning from the greater world should bestow that upon them.

this view concerns me that one who claims magick as their, power...can easily disregard such basic tenents as respect and consideration for other forms of sentiences that watched as developing homosapiens climbed into caves and emerged, inspired with everything that makes us human, allowing us to name and harness these, unknown energies, shaping them to what we can understand...and work with.

 to place yourself on top of the spiritual heap, declaring absolute control, referring to everything as a playground?

...as much as i detest applying terms like good an evil to magick, i have to agree this is a pretty evil ideal, and it can only backfire...

what happens when that one energy that's more experienced, more favored and more respected for their relation to these energies does come along and put simple humans with delusions of power over the natural and unseen worlds, in their place?

what happens when a person walks up with a gun and shoots, can magick really stop that bullet...would you be willing to test the theory?

 there's always bigger fish, they are not necessarily human...or  even have an ability to comprehend the frailities of physical existance...magick with no respect for other existances or, practical reality only exasperates; destruction, unstructured chaos, and the startling, even painful realization how low on the totem pole humans really are in the grand scheme of things...we may have more intelligence than animals, but are we really better off?

i'm not saying there's any bibical god form, angels or any other, book based good versus evil battle.  archaic, outmolded ideals of good and evil, do not apply to my life...but everyone designs their own versions of these, archetypes...to completely dismiss human rationalization, basic tenents of existance and a realization of life that should seperate us from simple beasts as not being applicable to humanity?

i firmly believe in evolution, that nature is the reason we are alive, pretending we are greater than anything in existance, because we have a brain with consciousness...

so many are denying the ingrained relationship we have to nature, i blame that for all the nastiness in this world...it's  these mindsets that are destroying what was once a balance between the natural, human and inhuman...anyone aware of the problems in the world, can easily see the result of power without responsibility and inconsideration of others, basic rights to life.

magick without realization of external factors only destroys and stagnates growth...nothing beneficial can come from it, magick should be used to make a person wiser and understanding; not ignorant and uncaring.

ignorance is the ultimate evil, and the world we live in now, is the result, it's sad that there are magicians that still perpetuate the cliche ideals of good and evil that so many other practicioners have struggled to dispel, desiring to be seen as a force of benelovence, rather than a source of maleovance, as the bible religions have designated them to be...

why perpetuate the myth of evil by demonstrating it so absolutely?

Phantom X:

--- Quote ---as a fellow practicioner of the arts, this concerns me...it seems you are seperating yourself from the world, placing yourself above the very things that make the impossible possible.
--- End quote ---

I placed myself above humans in a ranting form, however, I have worked hard to fine tune my gift and have the right to say I am better, but always place Nature above me. I have told Seeker many of times how I feel if Nature gets upset with me doing something and no longer push the subject.


--- Quote ---what if another person decides they want it to rain, when you want the sun?  Does it become a power struggle as to who has the most desire or the source that they derive their power from, who has the power to decree to nature what she can or can not do?

--- End quote ---

As I said before, I follow Nature and do what it allows me to do. Yesterday I wanted rain to drop the temp in my area. I tried and Nature was displeased, so I stopped. An hour or so later rain came in and lowered the temp drastically. That was Natures way of rewarding me for what I had done.


--- Quote ---where does a mage derive his power from?
--- End quote ---

A mage derives their power from their imagination and their mindset. I believe, with my heart and soul, that I can control the weather. I use my imagination to see the weather condition I like, then it comes true. Sorta like Projection.


--- Quote ---that is evil...no matter who chooses to destroy or control that which they have no rights to destroy or control, forcing their will onto another, is just morally wrong.
--- End quote ---

First of all, I have a right to control where my life goes and not God nor anyone else can tell me where to go. I have the right to be here. Period.

Second, I do not force my will onto others. I have been given a gift to shape the world to how I believe. If its wrong, it shouldnt exist.


--- Quote ---this view concerns me that one who claims magick as their, power...can easily disregard such basic tenents as respect and consideration for other forms of sentiences that watched as developing homosapiens climbed into caves and emerged, inspired with everything that makes us human, allowing us to name and harness these, unknown energies, shaping them to what we can understand...and work with.
--- End quote ---

Everyones magick views are diffrent. I believe that we can merely call the name of a God to tap the powers that its been holding for centuries. If I ask Apollo to protect me, the energies of all the people whom prayed and sacrifice will come and protect me. If I truly needed him, he will come because my energies are now in him as well.


--- Quote --- to place yourself on top of the spiritual heap, declaring absolute control, referring to everything as a playground?
--- End quote ---

'The world is my playground' is just an expression. It means the world is what you make of it.


--- Quote ---what happens when that one energy that's more experienced, more favored and more respected for their relation to these energies does come along and put simple humans with delusions of power over the natural and unseen worlds, in their place?

what happens when a person walks up with a gun and shoots, can magick really stop that bullet...would you be willing to test the theory?
--- End quote ---

To simply wrap up the results of all that, I die. I am willing to die to be the strongest I need to be, even if that means taking on something with more power than I. Maybe its my football instinct or my ignorance, either may it probably will be the end of me.


--- Quote ---magick without realization of external factors only destroys and stagnates growth...nothing beneficial can come from it, magick should be used to make a person wiser and understanding; not ignorant and uncaring.
--- End quote ---

I realize the external factors and they acknowlegde me. I am wiser and more understanding and have never been ignortant or uncaring towards Nature. When I feel it needs me to stop, I stop. I know my limits and my restrictions and have been following the rules.


--- Quote ---ignorance is the ultimate evil, and the world we live in now, is the result, it's sad that there are magicians that still perpetuate the cliche ideals of good and evil that so many other practicioners have struggled to dispel, desiring to be seen as a force of benelovence, rather than a source of maleovance, as the bible religions have designated them to be...
--- End quote ---

I completely agree.

Edit: Took out quote

LightWarrior:
I agree with both of you to a point. First off I do not beleive in evolution and never will. Science and Magick have no place being mentioned together. Also if you truely beleive in Nature Magick then you should know that this is a world that exsists on the presence of good and evil. There will always be good and evil in this world no matter what. My grandfather was an apache medicine man and worshiped nature and the spirit world all of his life and taught me alot of what I know. We all make are own choices and worship what or who we want. I am not saying the way you worship or the art you practice is wrong. A mage and a witch and how they draw there powers is different yet kinda the same. BY you saying Phantom x is wrong, in my mind it seems you are saying you are better because the way you worship is pure. I may be wrong and if so please explain this better.

Gnomelover:
I think that Evolution definitely exists in this world.  I think that Magick and Religion are other forms of science, but have explained more and explain it in different ways.

jordyn:

--- Quote from: LightWarrior on May 30, 2006, 02:30:50 PM ---I agree with both of you to a point. First off I do not beleive in evolution and never will. Science and Magick have no place being mentioned together. Also if you truely beleive in Nature Magick then you should know that this is a world that exsists on the presence of good and evil. There will always be good and evil in this world no matter what. My grandfather was an apache medicine man and worshiped nature and the spirit world all of his life and taught me alot of what I know. We all make are own choices and worship what or who we want. I am not saying the way you worship or the art you practice is wrong. A mage and a witch and how they draw there powers is different yet kinda the same. BY you saying Phantom x is wrong, in my mind it seems you are saying you are better because the way you worship is pure. I may be wrong and if so please explain this better.

--- End quote ---

today's science is yesterday's magick...

so, what about nature is good, what about nature is evil, excluding humanity of course?

it does come down to opinion, and mine is that; good and evil is derived from humanity, sure, we may be able to attune with naturally occuring energies, some will be friendly towards us, others will not, some will have an amazing realization of consciousness, other's will be little more than a breeze...

but it's humanity that makes them devils, angels and any other title starting out with the prehistoric sorcerer and venus's of waldorf type of worship, giving them personality, a stance, in that manner, i do believe we make gods and their sort out of personal desires, in response to these energies...

unless you can prove there is an aspect of the natural world that's evil, any example of good nature.

personally, i don't worship nature, i worship nothing, really...

but magick as a natural talent that humanity can possess, should also extend to consideration of humanity...man and nature should be in balance...but most are too, simple to concern themselves with balance, with little concern to find harmony with this world and either become full blown green nazi's or disregard nature, to the point of destroying her...so absolute in "their right to do so"

i don't give nature a personality...but nature does have the ability to respond to what we do to her....sort of like bothering a sow bear, she's not grumpy and mean, just responding to a threat to her cub, but that's not an emotion...but instinct.

an egotisitical, self worshiping approach to magick, will destroy a person, as easily as dancing with a devil can...there's no wisdom in believing one is better, there's always someone else to learn more from, but how can one learn, expound and grow believing they have it all, mastered?


--- Quote ---First of all, I have a right to control where my life goes and not God nor anyone else can tell me where to go. I have the right to be here. Period.

Second, I do not force my will onto others. I have been given a gift to shape the world to how I believe. If its wrong, it shouldnt exist.
--- End quote ---

so what gives you the right to tell others where to go...what can and can not exist, simply because you wish it...how do you decide what's wrong, do you even care what after effects your selfishness may cause?

just the other day some person was talking about magickally destroying a business, it fired him, apparantly he's been having a hard time getting back on his feet...sure, he may have the ability to shut the company down, but he failed to realize that others would lose their job, some supporting families...what would have given him the right to ruin the lives of others just because he was scorned?

at this point, the science of cause and effect, shoud be considered...magick without that, is just an unchecked id.

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