Monstrous

Dead... And Not So Dead => Death in action => Topic started by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 10, 2006, 02:26:04 PM

Title: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 10, 2006, 02:26:04 PM
I'm sure plenty of you have had this question before, but it really bugs me, where does everyone think they go when they die? I am a catholic, but I sometimes question the churches belief.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 10, 2006, 07:00:43 PM
Worm food until resurrection. No heaven, no consciousness, nothing.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 10, 2006, 07:03:27 PM
That sucks
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 10, 2006, 08:10:35 PM
The resurrection makes it worthwhile  :-)
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: westerhaus! on August 12, 2006, 01:06:24 PM
No heaven, no consciousness, nothing.

~I certainly agree nothing but darkness surrounding everything.... yeah... kinda...eternal sleep... :)zzz!!!

~the fallen~
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: westerhaus! on August 12, 2006, 01:11:29 PM
Worm Food until resurrection. No heaven, no consciousness, nothing.

~But , what 'bout people who ask for  being cremated or something else before die...:?!?!?!!! , well i guess fire is purifying!! , most people prefers to be cremated than buried...i like this choice too , the cemetery is full of nostalgia and what 'bout corpses?!? , It's very loaded with 'em... i gladly prefer to be carried away by the wind... my ashes fleeing across the wind in search for the sea....or i could end-up in trash :cry:...hell...hope not!! :-P!!

~the fallen~
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Morticia on August 13, 2006, 07:18:56 AM
Worm food until resurrection. No heaven, no consciousness, nothing.

I've always heard of this, but I'm not sure. 

What about the thief who hung next to Jesus at Golgotha?  Jesus said, "THIS DAY thou shalt be with me in paradise."

I never understood how all the different viewpoints fit together.

And Ghostly, either way it won't matter.  We'll be so sound asleep it will be like a state of non-existence.  Like being put under for a surgery - you faintly recall going to sleep, but have no idea how much time has passed when you wake up.

I kind of like the idea of being worm food.  I like earthworms.  They do great things for the flowers.

I'm also registered as an organ donor.  I think God will OK that one.

~Morticia
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 13, 2006, 08:27:31 AM
"Assuredly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43)...

When the Bible was first written, it had no punctuation within each sentence. It was only centuries later that the punctuation marks we see in our English versions were inserted. With this in mind, it is important to know that "Assuredly I say to you today" was a very common Hebrew idiom used for emphasis - much like our, "I'm telling you right now" or "Mark my words" or similar. Now look at what Jesus said again:

"Assuredly I say to you today you will be with Me in Paradise"

Understanding the language is one thing, but how can I be so sure that that is what He meant? Because the Bible clearly states that He did not ascend to Paradise but went to the grave: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures" (1 Corinthians 15:3-4) He lay in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights; He died and was buried. Scripture does not say He died and was buried and His soul went elsewhere. After His resurrection He said to Mary "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father" (John 20:17) This was 3 days after His death, and He still had not Himself ascended to Heaven.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 14, 2006, 08:08:32 AM
If our body decays, do our souls just hange aroung or do they stay with the body in the eternal slumber?
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 14, 2006, 10:28:35 AM
There's no immortal soul.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 14, 2006, 11:51:14 AM
Then how are we resurrected?
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 14, 2006, 12:09:28 PM
"There are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies; and the splendour of the heavenly bodies is one thing, the splendour of the earthly another. The sun has a splendour of its own, the moon another splendour and the stars yet another; and one star differs from another in brightness. So it is with the resurrection of the dead: what is sown as a perishable thing is raised imperishable. Sown in humiliation, it is raised in glory; sown in weakness, it is raised in power; sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body." (1 Corinthians 15:40-44, Revised English Bible).
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 14, 2006, 01:48:07 PM
Then why does the church talk about saving our immortal soul? Were they just scaring us to not sin?
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Devious Viper on August 14, 2006, 02:00:14 PM
The Roman Catholic church has a lot to answer for in the doctrines it has taught... Nowhere in the Bible do the words "immortal" and "soul" appear together! It was made up by the Catholics.

The question is, then, if it doesn't explicitly say that, does the Bible instead actually teach that we have an immortal soul? Some believe that various scriptures support belief in an immortal soul. But you have to look at these passages and understand what they really say.

Matthew 10:28

"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

Does Jesus teach in this verse that the soul is immortal? Not at all. If you look at this scripture closely you see that Jesus actually says that the soul can be destroyed.

Jesus is here warning about the judgment of God. He says not to fear those who can destroy only the physical human body (Greek soma), but fear Him (God) who is also able to destroy the soul (psuche).

Simply stated, Christ was showing that when one man kills another the resulting death is only temporary; God can raise anyone to life again either in this life (see Matthew 9:23-25; 27:52; John 11:43-44; Acts 9:40-41; 20:9-11) or the life to come. We must revere God, who alone can obliterate all possibility of any later resurrection to life. When God destroys one in "hell," that person's destruction is permanent.

What is the "hell" spoken of in this verse? The Greek word used here is gehenna, which comes from the combination of two Hebrew words, ge and hinnom, meaning "valley of Hinnom." The term originally referred to a valley on the south side of Jerusalem in which pagan deities were worshiped.

Because of its reputation as an abominable place, it later became a garbage dump where refuse was burned. Gehenna became synonymous with "a place of burning"—a site used to dispose of useless things.

Only God can utterly destroy human existence and eliminate any hope of a resurrection. The Scriptures teach that God will burn up the wicked, turning them to ashes (Malachi 4:3).

1 Thessalonians 5:23

Many are confused by an expression the apostle Paul uses in his letter to the Thessalonians: "Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thessalonians 5:23).

What does Paul mean by the phrase "spirit, soul, and body"?

By "spirit" (pneuma), Paul means the human mind, which gives us the ability to reason, create and analyze our existence. By "soul" (psuche), Paul means physical life and its consciousness. By "body" (soma), Paul means the flesh of a physical body. Paul wished for the whole person, including the mind, vitality of life and physical body, to be sanctified and blameless.

Revelation 6:9-11

"When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, 'How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?'" (Revelation 6:9-10).

To understand this scripture we must remember the context. John was witnessing a vision while he was "in the spirit" (Revelation 4:2). Under inspiration he was seeing future events in symbol. The fifth seal is figurative of the great tribulation, a time of world turmoil preceding Christ's return. In the vision John sees under the altar the martyred believers who sacrificed their lives for their faith in God. These souls symbolically cry out, "Avenge our blood!" This can be compared to Abel's blood symbolically "crying out" to God from the ground (Genesis 4:10). Though neither souls nor blood can literally speak, these phrases figuratively demonstrate that a God of justice will not forget the evil deeds of mankind perpetrated against His followers.

This verse does not describe living souls that have gone to heaven. The Bible confirms that "no one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven" (John 3:13). Even righteous King David, a man after God's own heart (Acts 13:22), was described by Peter as being "dead and buried" (Acts 2:29), not alive in heaven or some other state or location.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on August 14, 2006, 05:29:41 PM
Then what is heaven if no one has gone there? From what you are saying, when we die we just stay in a hole in the ground and wait for the resurrection. Then what? Do we go to heaven if we are just? Or do we stay on earth? Or can we rot away completly? Body and soul.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Moloch on August 31, 2006, 01:09:02 AM
.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Moloch on August 31, 2006, 01:09:31 AM
.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Wolfyna on December 14, 2006, 06:42:24 AM
Many of monsters ar undied
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Sick_Angel13 on December 14, 2006, 07:55:27 AM
I prefer the idea of Oblivion to all others. But that's just me.

Good one, and I don't like the idea of resurrection. I prefer eternal sleep, the Lord knows a soul can be destroyed and scared the sufficent enough to continue, we deserve a vacation. :wink:

When I was really really REALLY young me and my long lost childhood pal, Shawn, we both imagined what heaven will be like. By the looks of it everyone has their very own paradise. Like, for example, If you were to choose a place to spend for eternity, where would it be?
Shawn said when he dies he'd like to go to a Jamaica-like beach with coconut water, hammerlocks tied to palm trees and surrounded by a bunch of big-breasted blonde hula-hula girls.*dies laughing* Well, if it's his paradise, let it be.

Yuck, I don't like earthworms. I'm gonna be a organ donor. I'm planning to be a blood donor when I come of age and giving my eyes and organs for donation when I die. See? I'm even going to be useful in my dying day :-D
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: phyrrestar on December 29, 2006, 06:27:45 AM
I'm not sure exactly what happens, but I'm betting Oblivion, honestly.  At least there's nothing to worry about then, quite literally.

Hypothetically, though, if I got to choose my own heaven it would probably be something straight out of a fantasy book.  Basically, I'd like the opportunity to play out all the daydreams I've had in my lifetime and perhaps add more once I'm done with those until I just want to rest forever.  This includes both the good and the bad, because you can't really appreciate how wonderful some parts of life are unless you've had the hardship with it.  I would never wish to go into a heaven with no pain because the feeling of joy would be lost.  Humans aren't made to be perpetually happy, and I don't think we'd like it very much if we had to be.

I may like the worms, but I'm an organ donor, too.  I certainly won't be needing those parts later.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Phantom X on December 29, 2006, 08:14:38 AM
My heaven wouldnt have any clothes, beautiful women, a gym, friends and family, and the fastest internet connection. But mostly, no clothing.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on December 29, 2006, 09:20:11 AM
My heaven wouldnt have any clothes, beautiful women, a gym, friends and family, and the fastest internet connection. But mostly, no clothing.

hmmm nudist or sumthin? My heaven would probably be in the jungle or something full of excitement and other things that resemble a lara croft game. I just don't want to be bored in the next life, and when I reach eighteen, I am becoming an organ donor, I'm not going to be using my organs so may as well help someone else as a last act of kindness.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Sick_Angel13 on December 29, 2006, 09:53:49 AM
Organ donor is nice, once I come of age I insist on giving organs after my death; eyeballs and stuff like that.
A blood donor is a sort of my childhood dream. (I like needles)

My heaven? Oblivion is preferred but a place where my soul can rest forever. Probably a huge old candlelit castle with a red/black rose garden and gargoyle/skeleton/sad_angel statues, the palest full moon,  next to a forest of dead trees and a waterfall. Include the castle with a nice big library and a black/red campony bed and a fireplace and my soul is rest assured. If there is a pale young and handsome vampiric guy playing piano or wrist-violin for me death really can't be that bad. :evil: :-D


My heaven wouldnt have any clothes, beautiful women, a gym, friends and family, and the fastest internet connection. But mostly, no clothing.

So you're planning on going to these forums after your death as well? Dude you're my hero.

Nah, did I mention my heaven includes a old grandfather clock in the corridor, a bedroom with French windows and a closet full of dark outfits? Oh please, in heaven I don't see myself with anyone but my pet cat and a few ravens. Family and friends haven't been wanting me around ever since it wouldn't change now anyways.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Phantom X on December 29, 2006, 03:53:09 PM
I am not a nudist, I just like being naked. Is that so wrong?


The Phantom will live on forever here!
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: phyrrestar on December 29, 2006, 09:27:47 PM
Actually, nudity is quite comfy at times, but having the option of clothes would also be pleasant for practical reasons.  Of course, if it was your heaven I suppose you wouldn't have to worry about diseases, insects, cold, or pain.  Unless you want those in your heaven, too?
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Robigus on December 29, 2006, 09:41:51 PM
My philosophy is to find out where I go when I go without speculating, but I tell you what, if I die and find someway to come back and tell you what it's like, I'll do that for ya.

As for the perfect Heaven, it may not be exstravagent or exciting, but I believe that my Heaven is right here.  What I make it is what it shall be.  I have those who love me, respect me, and enjoy spending time with me.  I have challenges and enemies without which it would be no fun.  Besides, I like the fact of pusuing a better life through bettering my actions.  It is only in this life where my actions, my decisions, truly make a difference.  It gives me a reason to be wholesome and live with virtue without some hokey dream of the afterlife.

Sorry for rambling on, didn't mean to.  Summation:  My Heaven is here with those I love and who love me.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: krollusk on December 30, 2006, 12:24:29 AM
You know, I honestly don't care what happens when I die. Heaven, Hell, whatever. It's not like I'll have much choice in the matter by then, so I might as well make the most of it while I'm on Earth.

But if I could choose a heaven for myself, here it is:
A vast wilderness, unouched by any human. There are animals in abundance, from the lowly worms to gigantic dinosaurs. There has to be plenty of materials to make weapons, tools, and shelter. I would spend my days hunting, fighting the more dangerous animals, playing music on hand-made instruments, carving art into the rocks and trees, and meditating. I would be God and King in this realm, and anything I wished would be.
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Zak Roy Yoballa on December 30, 2006, 08:46:08 AM
Most Orthodox Christians believe that where a person goes when they die depends on whether or not they have been saved by the grace of God. 

For a believer, when we die, our "soul and spirit" for a lack of a better term, goes into the presence of the Lord, "Abraham's bossom" in Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus.  Later on, when Christ comes back, we will recieve new bodies and spend the rest of eternity worshiping the Father.

For a non-believer, when they die, their soul goes to "Hades" a place of constant pain.  They are not tormented by the devil nor demons BTW.  When Christ comes back and Satan and the demons are beaten again, they will be tossed into a lake of fire for all eternity and the non believers will join them.  This place is so bad that there will be "wailing and gnashing of teeth". 

I know that DV has a different view of the afterlife and I think he supports it well.  I think that the traditional view is a more accurate picture.  I hope for the sake of all the non-believers that DV's view is correct however.  I wouldn't want anyone to suffer for eternity.

ZRY
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Loki on December 31, 2006, 05:33:31 AM
Being a Buddhist by choice (through born Christian), I believe our souls will travel to other forms of existence (animal, human, deity, ...) located on our or other plans until we fulfill ourselves. 

Oblivion if exist is not total as we experience brief moments of our past or future lifes. Monsters represent entities that are here to help us travel in the continuum.

I urge you to question your Christian faith and accept that monotheism cannot provide any answer to the mystery of Being.

LK


Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Robigus on January 01, 2007, 01:15:02 AM
I urge you to question your Christian faith and accept that monotheism cannot provide any answer to the mystery of Being.

I honestly beg to differ as we are actually capable of creating our own relities by how we define them.
Title: An interesting allegation
Post by: Loki on January 01, 2007, 04:07:03 AM
From Michael Prescott's Blog

In a previous post I speculated that the ultimate nature of reality is information, analogous to a set of instructions, and that in certain cases our own consciousness can rewrite these instructions and change reality. I'm not insisting this hypothesis is true; I'm just throwing it out there for consideration. And if there is any truth to it, then it ought to remain true even after our consciousness is separated from its physical vessel.

In this respect, it's interesting to look at a couple of quotes from a recent interview with Deepak Chopra, touting his new book Life after Death. I haven't read this book yet, although I intend to. I'm a little put off by the hype around it, specifically the claim that it is "the first major book on the afterlife to be published in decades." This is not true; such recent books as Is There an Afterlife? by David Fontana and Immortal Remains by Stephen E. Braude are very important additions to the literature on this subject, and there are many others. But I suppose Chopra is not responsible for his publisher's promotional schemes.

In any case, his remarks in the interview are directly relevant to our subject.

    Q: What, in a nutshell, do you think happens after we die?

    A: We return to our state of potentiality ... Our imagination creates our "here and now" while we are alive, and it can project a reality of our consciousness in all other realms, too ... All the mental abilities we use to create things in our life continue after death and in fact become more powerful. Whether we are in this domain or any other, we are in the same state of spiritual consciousness....

    Q: Do you believe in reincarnation?

    A: Reincarnation is one scenario. Everything the human mind can imagine is also a scenario. Rumi (a mystical poet) says, "When I die I shall soar with angels, and when I die to angels, what I shall become, you cannot imagine." Any imaginative realm that you can imagine exists in projective reality.

Consider the variety of afterlife scenarios that have been posited throughout the ages. Is it possible that all of these "scenarios," to use Chopra's word, actually can and do take place? Well, it is possible if we ourselves are writing or rewriting the instructions that give rise to these scenarios.

Here are some examples:

In his book 90 Minutes in Heaven, Don Piper, a born-again Christian, describes a near-death experience in which he found himself in a quintessentially Christian heaven, replete with pearly gates and choirs of angels.

In What They Saw ... at the Hour of Death, researchers Karlis Osis and Erlandur Haraldsson point out that American Christians on their deathbeds often have visions of angels or Jesus, while Hindus in India typically see Hindu deities.

Reincarnation studies, such as those carried out by Dr. Ian Stevenson of the University of Virginia, have shown that in cultures where people expect to be instantly reincarnated with no interval between lives, young children remember a past life that follows this pattern. But in cultures where it is presumed that an interval of some years passes between lives, children will report spending the appropriate amount of time in a heavenly realm.

In cultures where reincarnation within a family is considered the norm, such cases are typically reported. In cultures where reincarnation outside the family is considered normal, cases like that are reported.

In cultures where birthmarks are expected to reflect wounds or illnesses suffered in a previous life, many more such birthmarks are found.

The point is that our expectations seem to play a considerable role in determining our after-death experience. If we expect to find ourselves at the pearly gates, we may find ourselves there. If we expect to see Jesus, we may see him. If we expect to see a different deity, we may see him or her instead. If we expect to be reincarnated at once, we will be. If we expect to have an interval of rest and recuperation before our next earthly incarnation, then that is how things will work out. If we expect to carry birthmarks into our next life that reflect our previous existence, we will. And so on.

This is not to say that our expectations are all-powerful; if a suicide bomber expects to go to paradise, he may be disappointed, if only because the expectations of his victims regarding their killer's fate are quite different. But within limits, our own consciousness may have the ability to map out the blueprint for our experience.

All of this may sound chaotic, with a different path for every soul. But why would we expect the process to be neat and simple?

Besides, the ultimate reality is neat and simple. Consciousness (whether our own or the combined consciousnessness of many individuals) writes or rewrites the instructions that give rise to all experience, both on earth and in heaven. The many apparent contradictions among afterlife accounts simply reflect the variety of experiences that are possible, given the variety of assumptions that souls carry with them.

And if the ultimate purpose of all this incarnating (and reincarnating) is to have the widest possible variety of experiences, then why wouldn't there be a variety of experiences after life, as well as during life?

Again, I'm not insisting any of this is true. There is no way to prove it. I'm just putting it out there as food for thought. And if my speculation has any validity, then it might be worth asking yourself what kind of afterlife experience you want and expect to have.

Just be careful what you wish for -- you may get it!
Title: Re: Where do we go?
Post by: Ghostlyguy90 on January 01, 2007, 08:13:24 PM
So from that, heaven is what you want. But what about people who have seen hell? Do they believe that they were going to hell?