Monstrous

Apocalypse Soon => Religions, Cults & Sects => Topic started by: jordyn on January 07, 2009, 04:52:29 PM

Title: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: jordyn on January 07, 2009, 04:52:29 PM
it seems a pretty straightforward question, going from a contemporary christian approach...but historically, biblically and traditionally; who goes where, how does it happen and how do you explain the claim to past lives?
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Raziel on January 08, 2009, 01:11:07 AM
Perhaps the whole Jesus ascension thing was meant to be taken litterally?

Ascending to the sky sounds like an abduction ^_^

but seriously though, if we take the kundalini/surat shabd yoga view, reincarnation happens because said person is not "unlighted" enough to ascend planes.
In this view there are 4 planes/grand divisions of existance.

Pinda- us
Anda- lowest of the heavens which is discribed as the powerhouse of the physical universe.
Brahmanda- place where bram/gods/allah-yahweh-spaghetti monster  resides. this was thought to be the highest point of existence by the old rishis (accd to the wierd book i got)

And

Sat Desh- translation, true country. plane of pure spirit, indescribable, infinite, incomprehensible to the human mind, Seat of the Creator. blah blah blah.(insert dictionary of praises here)


Basically, dem pplz dat meditate and study from a mashta (yesh  i iz mutilatingz me wurdz on purpoze)
dey, get real good at dis stuff and touch wan plase an go ap.

Our wurld dey sey is da place wit da baad juu juu.

That is to say the place with the densest matter. and the way to ascension is the denial of self by good works, and thoughts as these " deflate the ego" or something.


Of course i could be wrong. can a real follower of this thought-school please stand up? I don't wanna hafta read the book to give nina answers.   
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Nina on January 08, 2009, 04:36:32 AM
I think that eventually, everybody does. We go trough circles (reincarnation) until we learn what we are supposed to (insert Raz words here) and then we go to upper level.... or something like that.  :roll:
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Raziel on January 08, 2009, 05:18:16 AM
I think nina's loopy  :-D
(don't worry we still love you..... you crazy alien-conspiracy theorist  nut job ^_^)
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Rainbow on January 08, 2009, 06:44:27 AM
Correct me if Iam wrong, someone told me once that reincarnation goes through the 12 different zodiac signs. He told me that once you arrive to sign Pisces, your soul does not return to reincarnate. Then the soul move to the next level.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Raziel on January 08, 2009, 06:57:31 AM
My friend. people have different ways of interpreting a single idea.


For example, people believe that if you've accumulated enough karmic debt, you turn into an animal.(in your next life)
And some people, just for the heck of it decide that reincarnation turns you into a strand of the spaghetti  monster. but then again. Bleh.

Whatever you believe, one thing is certain.
None of us really have a clue.  those who say otherwise have their own beliefs and i think they should also start believing that the crusades were a successful assault against the Islamic religious in defense of the holy land, and not a politically motivated campaign by inbred politicians masquerading as men of the cloth against the ottoman empire. (Yes i know the first one was a sucess and all, but think about the children!!.........'s crusade)
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Nina on January 08, 2009, 10:09:29 AM
I think nina's loopy  :-D
(don't worry we still love you..... you crazy alien-conspiracy theorist  nut job ^_^)

Well, thank you... I guess....  :roll:

And that is sure, we cannot know for sure until we get there. We can have faith and instinct, but that isnt enough for some... thus they feel alone and like there is nothing after... I pitty them, really.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: jordyn on January 08, 2009, 02:25:49 PM
i don't think hindus are that big on astrology

http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/karma.htm (http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/karma.htm)

at least not how the west has come to embrace it.

http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-zodiac.htm (http://hinduism.about.com/library/weekly/extra/bl-zodiac.htm)
 
astrology has everything to do with where the stars, were when  you were born nothing about when or  where you die  and it really has very little to do with the concept of heaven.  if we were talking nirvana then there'd be a connection, but neo pagan incarnate beliefs are absolutely nothing like the eastern culture they stole it from.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Nina on January 08, 2009, 02:38:40 PM
Oh, my dear, but you are wrong. There is no older nor more exact astrology than Jotish.


Ok made a new topic about Jotish astrology (http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php/topic,6902.new.html#new)
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Loki on January 11, 2009, 02:26:09 PM
I think there are many astrological systems but it is hard to say which one appeared first - probably the vedic one.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Nina on January 11, 2009, 02:36:08 PM
Yes, thats the Jyotish one.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Ryobi on January 19, 2009, 03:28:37 PM
You know, if karma exists as the means to how you will be reincarnated and karma is based on what you do and your own will then that means it can be warped. If we figure out exactly how much good karma is needed to end up as 'what' then we could come back as whatever we want to.

I'm gonna come back as a mumbai taxi driver, no! Linda Goodman.. wait! A tree  8-).

Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Raziel on January 19, 2009, 05:07:31 PM
You know, if karma exists as the means to how you will be reincarnated and karma is based on what you do and your own will then that means it can be warped. If we figure out exactly how much good karma is needed to end up as 'what' then we could come back as whatever we want to.

I'm gonna come back as a mumbai taxi driver, no! Linda Goodman.. wait! A tree  8-).



Perhaps since karma is partially based on self perception, we can't use the "ive done enough, let me in " card. it  might even give us a negative effect for trying to manipulate the universal cycle of souls or something ^_^
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Ryobi on January 20, 2009, 01:48:49 AM
Well if you want to use karma to get to heaven but I don't know if that choice lies with us. The notion of heaven is very different to the notion of reincarnation, it doesn't seem to fit together, unless there is a way to accumulate so much good karma that you are reincarnated as a heavenly body...?
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Daemonin on January 20, 2009, 05:29:33 AM
Reincarnation can work with "heaven" in the sense that one can reincarnate time and time again until they reach their potential to go to "heaven."
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: jordyn on January 20, 2009, 08:11:58 AM
Oh, my dear, but you are wrong. There is no older nor more exact astrology than Jotish.


Ok made a new topic about Jotish astrology (http://www.monstrous.com/forum/index.php/topic,6902.new.html#new)

so, is astrology a religion, cult or sect?

that was my point, astrology is interpreting stars not an ancient secret to enlightenment...it's an enhancement of a person's faith, not the faith itself, or do you believe stars can dictate who qualifies for heaven and who doesn't?

and after reincarnation is all incarnated out, it's nirvana not heaven a completely different state of being.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nirvana (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nirvana)

get the ideologies correct, east doesn't always meet west especially when it comes to spiritualism.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Ryobi on January 20, 2009, 03:17:05 PM
Saturn is planetary karma, so is the 4th house. A saturn in the 4th house would indicate a person who's roots come from a old life. In other words, they have been through reincarnation a number of times and it is a sign of someone being an old soul. You have the true and south nodes. Where your south node is determines who you were in a past life, where your true node is, is where you are heading. My south node is in the first house in cancer, my north node is in capricorn in the 7th, this shows that in my past life, because I let my emotions run free and took without giving in return (immatured cancer traits, greedy security, need all the things I can get) because of a victim or superiority complex (1st house problems) in this life I must work towards (capricorn) devoting myself (capricorn) to the needs of others (7th house). Because my saturn (lord of past karma) is in the 8th trining all if my personal planets in the 12th, I can determine that maybe in that last life I took money or other material posessions from others (8th house) because I held a position in a church (12th house, known as embodiment of 12th house subjects (personal planets in 12th house) that took a tithe (8th house focus on other peoples' money, saturns play in restricting others money) etc.

This is self-enlightening, it gives me a purpose and helps me understand myself more fluently, I have faith in these stars because they have proved accurate.

When I have a question instead of asking a priest or a temple elder, I consult horary for my answers. When I am going through a tough time I justify it to myself by looking at my progressed or my transits in order to understand where I am slipping up. 

To me astrology is a religion because it fulfills all my criteria. Sure I don't believe in a heavenly body, I don't believe in a heaven or hell seperate from the earth either. I believe that people are recycled yes but I don't believe that they're 'incarnated out'. To me wether you end up in heaven or hell depends on what you make of the world around you, if you die happy you lived in heaven, if you die unhappy, you lived in your own hell. Once you're dead, you hit the ground and your body decomposes while your spirit is used to make a new being who will continue to fight to live in his very own version of heaven.

My god is the stars, he looks down on me, he moves and therefore dictates how I live my life and the only times I have fallen is when I haven't interpreted his messages properly. Don't tell me that astrology isn't a faith because it is mine.   
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Mr. Kreepy on January 20, 2009, 11:55:39 PM
To get back on topic...

If there is a place to reward us mortals after death, I would believe that anyone who lived their lives with a sense of spiritual tranquility would be able to go there. If your mind and soul is at ease when you die, and you accept the things that have happened in your life without internal conflict, guilt, or regret, in my view that would be enough to make it to heaven.

However, all this aside...In my opinion, it doesn't matter whether someone, let alone everyone, goes to heaven or hell. The only people who give a fark about what happens when we die are people who are still alive, and that's because they're not there yet. Once you're dead it doesn't really matter where you go because it's already too late.
Personally, I'd be okay with "heaven" OR "hell" simply because once I'm there I can't do a whole lot about where I'm at so it doesn't matter either way.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Team Squidward on March 15, 2009, 06:01:24 PM
Nobody knows unless they're onmiscient (or whatever) or dead.

And nobody (on this forum) is.
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: buda_bless on June 23, 2009, 11:37:54 AM
I remember 2pac said his only fear of death was reincarnation.

The ancient Sumerian culture had a pretty bleak outlook on the afterlife.  There was no heavenly paradise, just an eternity of eating clay to sustain themselves in the depths.

But hey I did hear one thing on a lighter note.  Did you know all dogs go to heaven?  hahaha sorry couldn't resist  *<:)
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Muerte on June 23, 2009, 03:03:15 PM
  No not all go to heaven, some are destined for other, less desirable ( to others at least ) places.  As for reincarnation, well, someone has to be some of the lower life forms don't they?  I'm gonna come back as a Vampire Bat.   <^>
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Moloch on June 23, 2009, 06:28:15 PM
"Hell was full... so I kicked all their asses out and made it my own personal paradise."
Title: Re: "does everyone go to heaven?"
Post by: Raziel on June 27, 2009, 12:11:57 PM
Heaven..... yep everyone goes there. Then they decide to stay or not. :-)