The Darker Side > Demons, Demonology and The Devil

Demon Hunting

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jordyn:

--- Quote from: Jake on December 21, 2012, 03:33:54 AM ---Escapism is not a bad thing per se. Ernst Bloch, a German philosopher, went as far as describing it as an "immature, but honest substitute for revolution." And there's the problem: in excess it can become an opiate that keeps people stagnating in the pre-revolutionary phase.

You say, "why not worry about a phantastical evil when there's so little you can do about the physically real "evil" people deal with daily?"

Because that's just a long way of saying, "I give up."

"What does the usa have to do with it?" you asked. Well, when I see someone writing "I need to become a demon hunter asap. There is a huge war approaching and i want to fight in the war" then call me cynical, but I'm using inductive reasoning: if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Regarding wars, the U.S. current account trade deficit stands at $107.5 billion. Since 2001 the U.S. has spent $807.4 billion fighting a war Iraq and $570.9 billion fighting a war in Afghanistan. This year alone those two wars cost the U.S. $121.2 billion. Meanwhile, 47.1 million Americans are on food stamps.

I'm sure that the military-industrial complex and the federal government are quite happy that those 47.1 million people are retreating into a fantasy world - be that religion, Hollywood, the cult of celebrity, the unattainable "American Dream", whatever. Of course, I'm using America as an example here, but that's because they are the clearest example. I don't mean to imply that they are the only example.

--- End quote ---

it's not really giving up, more of a..."let something else worry about the little things." I worry about paying the electric on time and i'm confident in the quality of my soul.  I meant america for the demon hunting, it's not an endeavor exclusive to Americans(guns, yes)...actually i heard a news report stating atheism is on the rise in america.  I think it has more to do with age, powerless people will grasp power anyway they can over what they can't control, a teenage life, qualifies.

I'm not a proponent of demon hunting for a variety of spiritual and personal reasons, but for me hunting in general has an entirely different meaning.  However it does relate in some significance to the subject of this board. Whatever your opinion on it, general agreement suggests that you do need to indeed understand demons to hunt them, it's a matter of belief if they're real or not and that should be considered rather than a personal gratification of the ego and of being right.

Most posting here do believe...

jordyn:
why didn't you say that in the first place?

there's a few technicalities i disagree with but that would be getting off topic, so I'll agree to accept our respective sides and get back to the demon hunting topic...it can be an interesting read. 

Angelus:
I like the suggestion jake. I may write a small handbook and stick it on amazon kindle to see if it sells. I love experiments. And money.

SterekSeeker:

--- Quote from: Jake on December 22, 2012, 05:38:26 AM ---
--- Quote from: jordyn on December 21, 2012, 06:30:52 PM ---I meant america for the demon hunting, it's not an endeavor exclusive to Americans

--- End quote ---

Because America is the home of Christian Fundamentalism, Biblical literalism and the Christian right-wing.[1] Because American culture is obsessed with TV in general and paranormal reality TV ("paratainment")[2] in this instance, is obsessed with the supernatural, and is the birthplace of Spiritualism.[3] Because "ghost hunting" and "demon hunting" are now established American pastimes.[4] Because American culture permanently revolves around an ongoing, never ending war with a shadowy enemy - reds under the bed in the McCarthy era, extraterrestrial aliens during the space age, muslim terrorists post 9/11, socialist 5th columnists in the Obama era, et al.[5] Demons and spirits are simply convenient, catch-all stand-ins for Americans to make sense of their world today.

(And let's not forget the Almighty Dollar - it's a big bucks industry to boot. The people with the strongest "beliefs", the ones coming up with all the "evidence", the ones telling the best stories, do all of these things 'because they have chosen to pursue the paranormal as a source of monetary compensation: this is their job, and selling their stories to you, convincing you that they are more special than you are, is how they make their money.'[6] Try it and see: write a slim, supernatural/paranormal themed book, self-publish in Kindle format on Amazon, sell it for 99, watch the cash roll in.[7])


--- Quote from: jordyn on December 21, 2012, 06:30:52 PM ---general agreement suggests that you do need to indeed understand demons to hunt them, it's a matter of belief if they're real or not

--- End quote ---

Assuming that demons do exist, how exactly is it assisting people to understand them, simply by insisting and accepting - uncritically - "They're real!"? And which demons exactly are the subject of this "understanding" anyway? Shedu? Shedim? Lamassu? The 7,405,926 demons of the Talmud? The Enochian Nephilim? The 44,435,622 demons of the Pseudomonarchia Daemonum? The 133,316,666 demons of The Lesser Key of Solomon? Zoroastranism's Angra Mainyu or Ahriman? The Hebraic Azazel? Islam's Iblis, Shaytan and Jinn? The Buddhists' Mara? The Hindi Vetalas, Yakshas, Bhutas and Pishachas? The cut-and-pasted Christian demons of the Goetia and The Book of Abramelin? Theistic Satanism's Belial and Leviathan? ...And that's barely scratching the surface. Every religion and every culture has a version of an evil spirit: primitive explanations from unenlightened times to scare children and miscreant adults into behaving or to explain poor harvests / mental illness / bad luck / disease.[8]

I've said this elsewhere here, but I'll reiterate: I don't dismiss demons out of hand. I dismiss almost all claims about them, however, because they fail basic tests of verifiability. I want to believe in them, but I need evidence and a logical, critical explanation in order to do so. I accept instead that there are some instances that are currently unexplained - but to say that "unexplained" = "supernatural" is a false approach. In fact, everything which science has investigated thus far has in fact become more and more explainable, more and more understood.[9]

My argument is that by allowing and encouraging the uncritical acceptance of all this "white noise", wish-fulfilment fantasy, wild imagination and patent nonsense, it becomes impossible to pick out the genuinely "unexplained" worthy of investigation. It is like trying to hear a pin drop in a rock concert. I'm all for people relating their experiences, and I'm all for people examining their claims critically. Anybody who genuinely believes their experience is "real" would welcome the chance to push their claim from "nonsense" to "unexplained" to "explained." Simply stating "I need to become a demon hunter asap. There is a huge war approaching and i want to fight in the war. Please if you are a demon hunter or know an exerienced demon hunter, contact me asap" is a very good example of nonsense.

I also think that a lot of the "advice" dished out by some self-certified "experts" here is irresponsible and dangerous.


--- Quote from: jordyn on December 21, 2012, 06:30:52 PM ---Most posting here do believe...

--- End quote ---

Belief "is not a guarantee of reality, and it does not necessarily depend on the reality of what is believed."[10]


[1] Princeton, New Jersey - In the 1800s, as a response to academic, historical criticism of the Bible, Princeton Theological Seminary put its fingers in its ears and declared that henceforth the Bible could not be criticised - academically, theologically or otherwise - because it was "the inerrant word of God." Furthermore, interpreting scripture in any way except literally was a one-way ticket to Hell, they warned. By the 1920s the Baptists were calling this "fundamentalism" and went on to oppose the teaching of evolution in schools (eg Tennessee's Scopes Trial), etc. Nowadays, they steer the GOP.
[2] Ghost Hunters, Paranormal State, American Ghost Hunter, Extreme Paranormal, Ghost Adventures, Haunting Evidence, Paranormal Cops, Ghost Lab et al
[3] Hydesville, New York, 31 March 1848 - Kate and Margaret Fox claim to have contacted the spirit of a murdered beggar and launch the entire table-tapping entertainment industry on to the world. In 1891, shortly before her death, Margaret confesses that the whole thing was a scam and that she had made the tapping sounds herself using her toe joints. But the industry was by then so firmly established and lucrative that hardly anyone stopped "believing."
[4] Sayed, Deonna Kelli (2011): Paranormal Obsession: America's Fascination with Ghosts & Hauntings, Spooks & Spirits p.13
[5] See for example, Curtis, Adam (2004): The Power of Nightmares: The Rise of the Politics of Fear. BBC.
[6] Newkirk, Greg (2012): "Bad Vibes: Can Dealing With Evil Spirits Kill You?" Who Forted?
[7] See for example, Barnett, Emma; Alleyne, Richard (21 Jun 2011): "Self publishing writer becomes million seller." Daily Telegraph.
[8] See for example, Frazer, James George (1922): The Golden Bough: A Study in Magic and Religion p.492
[9] Cline, Austin (2012): Unexplained vs. Unexplainable: How Theists Misunderstand Science (or Trying to Justify the Supernatural by Misrepresenting the Scientific Method)
[10] Eller, Jack David (2007): Introducing Anthropology of Religion: Culture to the Ultimate p.32

--- End quote ---

JAKE I AM LITERALLY IN LOVE WITH YOU RN!!

Sherriff:
And apparently, Jake is in love with himself too. Narcissist much?

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