Monstrous
Witches Brew => Pagan Living => Topic started by: phyrrestar on January 15, 2007, 05:51:57 AM
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It's common to hear "don't practice black magic" all over the place if you're looking into spells. Most often that means don't do anything with the intent to harm another especially since the mainstream magic practice now is Wicca ("An' it harm none, do what ye will"). However, forgetting black, white, grey or any other color of magic, where do you personally draw the line about what is morally wrong? What spells will and won't you do?
Personally, I refuse to attempt bending reality to my will. I feel it isn't my place and that I'd become stronger and learn more from suffering through the trials of life like any other. The only thing I'd ever use magic for is protection, and even then rarely. I know many of you feel otherwise, so I'd like to hear your opinions and reasoning.
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I refuse to break freewill and the natural course of things. Not only is that cowardly, its down right wrong.
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i agree i had my pinch of the dark and it will stay with me all my life, if you seem intrested in something of that nature go for it and if you like it why not but if you dont well then you learn a lesson. lifes fun isent it.
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If you draw a line for yourself, your limiting your abilities. As for me, I never draw a line.
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Though I have a bit of a hard time accepting the existence of magic, I will say...if it does exist, drawing arbitrary lines over what is right and wrong is only limiting to one's potential. Also, one man's "sin" is another man's "holy", so these lines only exist in the mind of humans and are thus limited by the inherent illogicalities present in human thought.
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I agree in part with those two. Right & wrong, good & evil, all these things are invented by humans. WE didn't, or couldn't understand something, it scared us, & so we named it as bad.
If we draw a line, & say to cross it is bad, then we are only limiting ourselves. However, it is only human, & if we try to do away with such things, then we are trying to be something w are not.
However, you shouldn't cross that imaginary line cuz you know it's bad & don't give a darn. You will get serious bad Karma.
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I agree. You shouldn't draw a line until you've pushed your abilities to the max.
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I agree. You shouldn't draw a line until you've pushed your abilities to the max.
Please don't necromance topics unless you have something to add. "I agree" is not adding.
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Since this topic has been sitting at the top for a while, and I have an opinion, I guess I'm going to revive it with an interesting bit of talking:
I like to think of the true line between Right hand and Left hand magic/energy-work not so much in terms of malicious action vs benevolent action, but in internal vs external action. It's one thing to do magic on yourself, but it's in another realm of ethics and consequences entirely to do it on external things, even if what you do may seem to be a good thing.
When you do magic on yourself, internally, you know full well the process and you (ideally) know full well the consequences, which are (typically) confined to yourself, and will not directly affect others. You have full rights to make those decisions. When you do it on another person who has given informed consent, you have a similar situation: they know the consequences, and it will generally be confined to them and yourself. This is what I would consider "Right Handed". It is straight forward and ethically simplistic.
When you do magic to affect the world around you, and especially on others, you have entered an entirely different realm, one that is much more complex, and filled with ethical pitfalls, unforseen consequences, and universal energy cycles (rule of 3 stuff). The people affected by such actions cannot possibly be informed and consenting, and there is no way to predict the majority of consequences that may befall yourself and those involved, or anyone in the world for that matter. This is what I would consider "Left Handed". It is ethically clouded, irresponsible, and often the kind that is used with a malicious or selfish intent.
Now, as to the original topic: I do not think anyone should practice magic with malicious intent. I don't think you have the right to interfere with the universe like that, and I feel that by using magic and other "shortcut" means to solve your problems, you are taking something away from yourself, the learning that you might get from dealing with life directly.
Are we "limiting ourselves" with this kind of thinking? perhaps... but are limits really so bad? Do you really want an anarchic universe where beings simply step in and do things without permission? Or do you want to live in the universe that runs on the system was planned out by it's omnipotent creator, and set up with infinite balance between perfect chaos and perfect order?
As for the comment of not drawing lines: you should draw lines. Never take on something that you aren't ready for. Don't try to walk the tightrope if you can't take the balance beam. We draw lines all the time for people who are learning things, it's for their own good, and some might even consider it an important part of the learning process.
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I personally won't affect a person's free will. For me that means no love spells on specific people, no hexes or curses. When it comes to magick for others, I won't perform any spell, even one of protection without the person's consent. This is such a personal thing, one that every practitioner must come to terms with on their own as they are the one who will be handling any repercussions. That isn't to say I haven't been tempted to use magick for "left-hand" things but I am glad I took the time to reconsider. There are rituals that I don't do because I do not feel strong enough to do them safely such as exorcisms or cleansings since to do so could endanger myself as well as those I was trying to help. I try to refrain from judging other magick practitioners except in the case of harm coming to an innocent (child or animal for example).
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This is an interesting topic to me, especially since I've been doing studying on Psi. Since I see very little distinction between magick and other approaches to channeling Psi energy/potential/etc, I've seen that the distinction between "good" and "bad" when it comes to exerting intent and will in such a way is purely self-enforced.
Personally, I have no issues being a cut-throat, a jackal. To use someone for my own personal gain is perfectly fine by me, as is inflicting harm or controlling another person. But, at the same time, with that power comes the knowledge that I need to be responsible with what I do lest I put my own comfort and wellbeing at risk.
I don't think you have the right to interfere with the universe like that
One might argue that we have the "right" to do it just be being able to do it. A lion has the right to claw out a zebra's intestine, why should we be so arrogant as to hold ourselves above natural laws?
Are we "limiting ourselves" with this kind of thinking? perhaps... but are limits really so bad? Do you really want an anarchic universe where beings simply step in and do things without permission? Or do you want to live in the universe that runs on the system was planned out by it's omnipotent creator, and set up with infinite balance between perfect chaos and perfect order?
First off, I must take issue with your assertion that the universe runs on a system created by an omnipotent creator, and secondly that us humans could even comprehend such a system.
Secondly, you seem to believe that without being told what to do by some kind of cosmic nanny the universe would dissolve into chaos. This is typical thinking for a naive, immature, and sheltered mind. Anyone with any REAL experience in the world understands that balance and order are self-evident and self-enforcing, and while it is commonly thought of as the opposite of order, chaos is in fact the process of balancing. Throw in a variable and the weak parts of the system die. Without these concrete rules that you so desperately crave in your naiveté, the universe would NOT in fact dissolve into chaos, but rather the weak links would be left defenseless and eliminated. In fact, this is the reality. No such laws exist, and lo and behold...The very foundations of the universe aren't crumbling. Astounding, isn't it?
You doubt my words? Go take a walk in nature. You'll see what I mean, if you possess the intellectual capacity to understand what I'm saying.
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Ah Kreepy, one person who's hand I may never taste. I was throwing that argument out to see what counter-arguments (and, more likely, vehement agreements) I would get, but you shot it down before I could have my fun...
No, you are correct, not only does the universe not shatter over such trifles, but the balance of chaos and order rights itself. It was silly of me to say otherwise.
This is an interesting topic to me, especially since I've been doing studying on Psi. Since I see very little distinction between magick and other approaches to channeling Psi energy/potential/etc
I don't see much of a distinction either, energy work is really just a raw form of magic from what I can tell.
One might argue that we have the "right" to do it just be being able to do it. A lion has the right to claw out a zebra's intestine, why should we be so arrogant as to hold ourselves above natural laws?
True, you can do whatever you want as long as it's within the realm of your capabilities. In the same sense, however, a human has the "natural right" to kill another human in cold blood, there are still not only consequences, as you pointed out, but ethical problems with that. In any case, I was referring to ethical rights, not simple possibility.