News:

The artist must bow to the monster of his own imagination. - Richard Wright

Main Menu

twilight

Started by IsAbElLa, May 18, 2009, 06:11:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

do you think twilight screwded up the vision of a vampire?

yes.. wth
12 (92.3%)
um...maybe but i liked it
4 (30.8%)
no the were so hot
0 (0%)
no...i have not seen it yet
0 (0%)
idc i know what i think so whatever
4 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 13

IsAbElLa

we are young, but we have heart, born in this world as it all falls apart......we are strong, but we don't belong, born in this world as it all falls apart. :)

Ryobi

I'm sorry but I can't see truth as anything other than constant. No matter how much the idea of vampries deviates from actual vampire lore, Twilight and the books that follow it will be seen as fiction and that will remain the same. Anyone who believes them to be true, is suffering from a delusion.

The truth is the truth, something doesn't become true by being repeated, spread and copied countless times. Nor does something become true if it is simply believed by many others.

Now some may be thinking of the bible and organised religion as an example of how a lie has become the truth, I'd like to remind you now that if the story of Jesus and the idea of God as a living entity was accepted as truth, then there would be no real controversy surrounding the subject.

You can have believed truths of course, however there are many of these already, they're called delusions. If people start to see vampires in the same way that Twilight depicts them, then that will only ever be a delusion that stems from the belief that a work of fiction is true. That's still doesn't make it true though. So no, we shouldn't mourn the death of something that isn't dying.

That in fact can not die.
When I hear somebody sigh, "Life is hard," I am always tempted to ask, "Compared to what?"

Muerte

  I speak of the majority who accept what is set before them as truth dear Ryobi.  I mentioned Bram Stroker.  Because of him, for the longest time Vlad Tepest was the worlds most popular vampire was he not?  As a matter of fact, even though there are those who try to explote the truth, there are still others who say Dracula is Vlad Tepest, with no distiction.  Mankind is nothing more than sheep following where others point, so when I say "Morn the death of truth", it is because of the exceptance of the majority, of any little tid bit offered them, it sickens me so. 

  We must,  dear, take into account the mind set of society, and not our own when we address these issues.  You are one of the individuals, able to think and reason for yourself, there are others ( far too many others ) who can not do so.  We know the truth, but they do not, and what is worse is that they could care less, so when they read things such as Twilight, well it must be fact, I mean a published author must know what they are talking about right.  They are published after all.
In remembrance of Moonbaby, one of the brightest and most glorious stars to ever grace the Monstrous community.  Missed you will be, forgotten NEVER.

Devinoir

There is I in every person,
Only long asleep...

IsAbElLa

we are young, but we have heart, born in this world as it all falls apart......we are strong, but we don't belong, born in this world as it all falls apart. :)

Ryobi

Quote from: Muerte on July 03, 2009, 07:32:40 PM
  I speak of the majority who accept what is set before them as truth dear Ryobi.  I mentioned Bram Stroker.  Because of him, for the longest time Vlad Tepest was the worlds most popular vampire was he not?  As a matter of fact, even though there are those who try to explote the truth, there are still others who say Dracula is Vlad Tepest, with no distiction.  Mankind is nothing more than sheep following where others point, so when I say "Morn the death of truth", it is because of the exceptance of the majority, of any little tid bit offered them, it sickens me so. 

  We must,  dear, take into account the mind set of society, and not our own when we address these issues.  You are one of the individuals, able to think and reason for yourself, there are others ( far too many others ) who can not do so.  We know the truth, but they do not, and what is worse is that they could care less, so when they read things such as Twilight, well it must be fact, I mean a published author must know what they are talking about right.  They are published after all.

You are right Meurte, people do tend to flock to a group mindset, it is human nature to be normal because being the same as everyone else is an easier way to survive. What I was referring to was what you were calling truth, truth itself is not what the mass population represents, what they represent is illusion. It's cynical but true.

The statement 'mourn the death of truth' isn't what we should be mourning. What we should be mourning is the loss of the individual mind.   

Also I think the difference between the Twilight and Bram Stokers work is that, Bram Stoker actually based his piece on a real person, whereas Twilight is purely a work of fiction based on people who never existed and never will. Sure people believed that Vlad Tepest was Dracula but this was more due to Bram Stoker spreading the story of that man (who people then continued to research) than people actually believing in an imaginary character. It was that grain of reality that made what Bram Stoker did possible.
When I hear somebody sigh, "Life is hard," I am always tempted to ask, "Compared to what?"

Muerte

  I can accept that, but don't you also think that with the loose of the individual mind people also loose the will to find the truth for ourselves?  Back in Brams day, the grain of truth was needed, because there was still an individual mind, however as time goes on, People tend to accept what is shoved before them as truth, so in this way, truth while not completely lost it is still burried so deeply as to not have existed at all in the first place?
In remembrance of Moonbaby, one of the brightest and most glorious stars to ever grace the Monstrous community.  Missed you will be, forgotten NEVER.

Ryobi

Quote from: Muerte on July 04, 2009, 08:59:50 PM
  I can accept that, but don't you also think that with the loose of the individual mind people also loose the will to find the truth for ourselves?  Back in Brams day, the grain of truth was needed, because there was still an individual mind, however as time goes on, People tend to accept what is shoved before them as truth, so in this way, truth while not completely lost it is still burried so deeply as to not have existed at all in the first place?

As long as people seek the truth it will have a voice. As long as people lie, there will be an opposite and equal reaction, truth. People are drawn to the truth by the look of it, even if they later find out it was a lie. For instance, the issue of younger people taking on the traits of vampires in order to better relate to their favourite book, they're trying to change their core persona in an effort to make something real and true. I guess that's the point, the truth may not be explicit but I do agree, with the individual mind comes the idea that the truth is what the majority believes and this does bury reality in a sense.

However I doubt that in Bram's day there was any more of an individual mind than there is today, for instance the church was a lot more dominant and held much more power, in those days. Possibly one of the reasons a man like Vlad was so incredibly horrifying (which led further to the success of his book). Actually, this is true for the bible as well, God may be an omnipotent-super-force however he still relayed many of his messages through people and real events such as floods, therefore people could relate the idea of God more easily to something they know is real. Do you agree that maybe people need a grain of truth in every story, in order to relate? If so, then that grain of truth will always exist no matter how ludicrous the central idea is. *cough* twilight *cough*.

It's funny because we do actually agree on many levels, could we agree to disagree on the other points?  :wink:
When I hear somebody sigh, "Life is hard," I am always tempted to ask, "Compared to what?"

Muerte

  But of course it is perfectly fine to disagree, in fact it is essential for the further development of understanding, as long as it is done with the intent of achiving understanding.  You see what we are doing right now is searching for the truth, coming at it from both ends.  I don't see it as disagreeing so much as debating, something which I vastly enjoy.

  As for the people of Brams day?  Well Individuality was really at its begining wasn't it?  Women who wanted to be equal but as yet were able to, men who tired of having to follow anouther foot steps.  Their only entertainment was each other and books.  Secretly yearning for something more they turned to the occult of Bram just as they would do now with Twilight and other works of such crap.  Some had access to true occult books, but for the majority?  Well the only occult book they had was the bible, so Bram, Mary, and others were what they had, and what those authors wrote was accepted as truth.  What else, after all, did they have to tell them different?

  Info note:  So far you are a great dance partner, and be sure, I will drag this dance out for as long as possible.
In remembrance of Moonbaby, one of the brightest and most glorious stars to ever grace the Monstrous community.  Missed you will be, forgotten NEVER.

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk