Monstrous
The Darker Side => Demons, Demonology and The Devil => Topic started by: LetterEphesus on September 23, 2008, 04:43:09 PM
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Greetings, one and all. I am quite new to these forums, as you may have noticed; this being my very first post, but I am far from a beginner on the subject of demons. True, I am even farther from an expert, and the mainstream study of demonology is not my strength, but I have insight none the less. I have been lurking on these forums for a while now, looking at the different ideas and posts of people on the topic of demons and such, and I believe I should step in and give a word. I may be considered a hunter, but I don't like that term all too well, and my insight doesn't stop there. Anyone with questions may ask, but I must always advise against taking up such a thing.
(for those of you are saying "who the f*ck is this guy?", just let the thread grow. Believe what you want, we are all entitled to that, but you will soon see that I am who I claim to be.)
Now allow me to take the time to post all of which I know, and relay it onto you.
First I will tackle simple protection. Now, if any of you have read up on your lore, you might notice that salt comes into play quite often. There is some validity behind this, after all the good book does say we are "the salt of the earth". Rock Salt, Sea salt, and if you must use it table salt can be used to ward off things of evil. Creating a line of salt on the windowsills and doors may keep out demons, and enclosing yourself within a salt circle may do the same. Though I must say, I am not positive that it will keep all demons out. The next would be hallowed objects. Sadly, these mean nothing. The images of the cross and such are so commonly used that they can mean nothing at all. Instead, an object prayed over and blessed would be effective. Lastly, for protection purposes, you might want to use prayer and invocation of the name YHWH or the Christ. There are more unconventional means of protection via magick and hoodoo, but I do not suggest these.
Now, for those of you worried about your friends, or going after one of these creatures, you should learn some tips on identifying demonic presences. In many cases, demons can draw energy from electronic devices, so electronics going haywire around an area or person could be a clue; as could cold-spots and hot-spots similarly, but keep in mind that many spirits can have such effects, not only demonic ones. Then there are those demons that possess men. These are a bit easier to detect in most cases. If you are close to the person in question, you will notice a change for the worse in their behavior. This may include a maniacal delight in wielding power, abnormal strength, speed, or intelligence, knowledge of a language which the person in question does not know, two or more discernible personalities (though be careful not to confuse this with schizophrenia), violent behavior, lack of self control (especially sexually related), disregard for personal appearance and health, and an uncanny response toward the mention of the Christ. Of course, these behaviors should only be considered demonic if they are unusual for the person in question. If you can’t be sure of this, or if you aren’t close to the person, you might want to try getting them to touch a blessed object (any object prayed over by a priest or preacher) or spraying them with Holy Water. If possessed, they will react with pain or discomfort. You should also know that demonic possession has two…forms, lets say. Active and inactive. When active, the demon is in full control of the body. When inactive, the person is in control, but still slightly under the demon’s influence. Some cases may be entirely active or entirely inactive. In either case, the above should be effective, albeit less effective/noticeable in an inactive possession.
Once the demon realizes that you know who he/she/it is, it might try to flee. Once this happens, or if you think a demon has been in an area and fled, you will want to track it. This is extremely difficult, but it can be done through omens. Most of the time, demons bring omens wherever they go, similar to the way they affect electronics. Identifying omens is hard, but they may include changes in weather, increased amount of insects etc. In order to identify a demon’s omen, you will need to know the locations of the demon at certain times and then you must gather information about the area at that time. If you can’t find its omen, or if it has none, it is almost impossible to conventionally track it. However, you may want to follow its pattern of attack. Usually the demons goal is to get the person they possess to commit suicide, and there is always a pattern it follows when attacking, so once you gather at least two definite demon attacks you can try to draw out a pattern and predict where it will strike next. Then there are the unconventional means of tracking through psychics and magics, but as I said before I do not recommend the use of such things.
Finally, the time will come when you must confront a demon. When this happens, it is important to be prepared. One thing you would want to do is set up a base camp near or at the supposed location of the demon. Then, so you aren’t caught off guard, you should set up motion detectors or EMF detectors to alarm you if anything comes near. You will also want to draw the pentacles shown in Solomon’s Key (I have seen it mentioned much here, so I hope you are all familiar with it), to trap the demon. I would suggest the Grand Pentacle. Once you have a demon captured within the circle, you should then use an exorcism to banish it from its bodily shell and send it away. Now, if you can trap it in its incorporeal form, there are exorcisms that deal with sending a demon to hell, which should be used accordingly. Of course, you can’t always trap the demon, and you might have to face it hand-to-hand. If this happens, I strongly suggest flight from the scene, for the demon will undoubtedly be stronger and faster than you. However, if you feel strong enough to combat it (and I would hope you are a believer in Christ), there are some things you should know. First off, blessed weapons that deal with close range can be deadly, since it is quite hard to get that close to such a foe without getting hurt. Instead, I recommend some sort of long range weapon. I personally use holy water guns, but any other weapon you can think of (when blessed) should work fine. Though I must warn you to keep in mind that whatever happens to the body of the possessed will remain after the demon has fled, so try not to hurt the person inside. I have also frequently heard of expelling and combating of demons through psychic power. I wouldn’t recommend it, but sometimes I find it may be necessary. However, magick, hoodoo, and occult practices are by no means approvable by me.
You might also want to know a thing or two about demonic behavior so you can be better prepared. If you seek information from the demon such as name or information on other demons (preferably not on random knowledge or such), and you have it within a devil’s trap, you should know the following. Demons can be very manipulative. Guard your mind and heart so as not to be wavered in faith or belief. Some demons can also read minds, and use that to build up emotion to drive you to do things. Be careful where you tread, and if you feel you are wavering stop immediately and dispose of the demon or flee. You should also know that demons tend to lie, so don’t always trust the information they give you. Try to use their pride against them, for I find that demons have much pride.
Now I shall present to you some information I have gathered that leans more to the theoretical side.
As some of you may know, demons in their true form are incorporeal and invisible. However, they can still affect our world. I find the only way this is possible is the same way that remnants of the deceased are able to interact with us: Through compiled and various energies. This being said, demons must draw in energy from our world in order to manifest in any way. This would explain electrical devices going haywire, hot-spots and cold-spots. The demon is “feeding”. However, even I have encountered a demon when no such things were evident. This, and a talk with a friend, has led me to believe that they can draw in energy through many sources. The sun, the earth, etc. This then explains “omens”, used to track demons. When the demon wants to manifest, it must draw in energy, and omens are the affects of that energy withdrawal. Allow me to explain: As I stated, malfunctioning electronics and cold/hot-spots can be a sign of demonic presence. These would be regarded as miniature omens. The demon draws in energy from the electricity, heat, etc., creating these affects. Larger omens are created similarly. For example, the demon may draw in geothermic energy, causing the ground to heat up, which in turn causes the air around it to heat up and rise, which will then create clouds and eventually electrical storms. Therefore, theoretically speaking, as long as the demon is manifesting, it can be followed, or tracked.
(demons may also feed off of fear; the remnants of which cannot be determined except through interviews of victims, making them some of the most difficult to follow)
I will now attempt to explain other creatures I believe are linked to the demonic. (this still falling under my theoretical bit.)
Oni
In Japanese legends, Oni are essentially demons; invisible, evil spirits that cause disease, disasters and to otherwise harm humans. Their current depiction is based on another old legend, saying that the direction of northeast was the direction of the “demon gate”, or “kimon”. Based on the Chinese Zodiac, this direction is the ushi/tora, or ox/tiger, direction. The Oni is depicted as having bovine horns and feline claws, fangs and such. This has led me to believe that perhaps the Oni come from this kimon, this demon gate. There is yet another legend, not particularly Japanese, which speaks of a demon gate, or more commonly devil’s gate or hell’s gate. If there lies a relation, this could mean that Oni are nothing more than demons who have come through such a gate out of hell and into the real world. Whether or not demons come from hell is uncertain, but what is certain is that they can be sent there. If they can come out through such a gate, this would mean they would have a newfound hatred for whoever sent them there, and possibly all humans, for hell is a place where you would not your worst enemy, and its not far from likely that whatever comes from there will be angry as…well…hell. If this is the case, then it is equally likely that whatever managed to get out is very strong, or perhaps stronger. Oni should be handled with caution. According to some Japanese legends, Oni can be warded off with the smell of burning sardines, which may relate to the smell of burning flesh that would supposedly be found in hell. I would definitely suggest this practice if you think you are facing an Oni.
Nephilim
According to the Bible, the Nephilim are a mixed race of (fallen) angels and men, created by angels who looked with lust upon earth’s women, a plan led by Satan to infect the seed of Abraham, since the Christ would come from that line. The Bible also claims they are the “heroes of old, men of renown”. (…Probably attributing the Nephilim to many unconfirmed legends of extraordinary men.) Later on in the book, the Israelites come across Giants living in the Promised Land, and believe they are Nephilim, meaning that the race probably consisted of giant men. There is also mention of a man named Goliath, who was a giant. It is believed that he and four others were Nephilim. What’s more is that each one was slain by David and his men; Goliath in a more popular story where David downed him with a stone and slew him. I have often wondered how a creature of such heritage be slain like any ordinary man, and I have come to one of two conclusions. The Nephilim must either be drowned, as was with the flood, or beheaded after death. This bleeds into the next section.
(It should be noted that some Christian demonologists regard Nephilim as demons)
Vampires of Lore
The “living dead” is a legend that has survived through the years, even if it has changed quite a bit. After much research, I have come to a(nother) conclusion. It is said that the Nephilim were eaters of human flesh, and that evil spirits came from them. Since it is somewhat established that not all Nephilim are giants, it is safe to assume that not all Nephilim ate flesh either. Taking this in mind, it brings me back to demons and omens. The evil spirits that come out from the Nephilim could represent the fact that they take on the incorporeal form that demons do, probably because they are so closely linked. If they do in fact house a spirit like a demon within them, similar to possession, the Nephilim would need to feed on something to continue to operate within that shell. This could bring about omens around them as they fed off of whatever energy they could find. One type of energy could have been blood, which is said to contain the life-force or soul. Some Nephilim would have eaten flesh and drank blood to survive, which could easily bring about much Vampiric lore: Beheading, the drinking of another’s blood, and possibly turning to mist or shapeshifting. This may not explain the weakness toward silver, but I’m sure that some myths are just that; myths. And since they can only die a certain way, it explains the Vampire’s “immortality”. And if a vampiric nephilim could transfer his blood to another body, chances are he could transfer all of these demonic traits as well. (bringing about the drinking of a vampire’s blood theory) These creatures are what I would call “Rephaim”, which is Hebrew for “the dead ones”. (Note that the Rephaim are mentioned in the Bible as Giants similar to Nephilim). The only thing that remains is the rise of other dead corpses becoming Vampires, with no evidence of being turned by a Rephaim. The explanation is quite simple: “and evil spirits came out of them”. Their demonic spirit could probably have possessed the dead or even the living, drawing the energy they need from human blood. These I would call “demonic vampires”. Of course, Sanguine and Psychic vamps could be a denatured mix of human and demon; not to offend.
(I have not forgotten about the other Nephilim. They would mostly be killed by the flood and King David, but some could have survived in society throughout the ages.)
Wendigo
For those of you who know the Wendigo legend, you might have already noticed the similarities between it and the legends of Vampires. For those of you who don’t know, I’ll brush you up a bit. The Natives of America, before the settlers, told stories of extremely tall, gaunt, flesh eating men called Wendigoes. This could easily be explained the Rephaim. Bloodthirsty giants.
Werewolves of Lore
I have another theory for the age old werewolves. One of the Grigori who helped create Nephilim was named Sariel. He was in charge of teaching men about the moon. However, like the rest of the Grigori at the time, he fell to lust and sexual desires, and the book of Enoch states that the Grigori engaged in bestiality as well (producing ‘monsters’). I believe it is safe to assume that Sariel did such things as well. In doing so, he could have created an offspring with, say , a wolf, and produced what is essentially a werewolf. Sariel’s involvement would explain the belief that werewolves transform under the full moon.
Other Shapeshifters
The above being said, I believe it is also likely that similar roots apply to other shapeshifters, and perhaps even explains the various means by which they shapeshift. Those creatures born of Sariel, wolf, human, or other, transform under the moon, while one born of Armaros, the teacher of enchanments, would transform after undergoing a certain magical spell. (Or after being exposed to magical energy.) And perhaps one born of Shemyaza, he who taught men of weapons, would transform after “death”, which could add to the Vampires of Lore.
Zombies
The other living dead could be explained by the demonic vampires possessing the dead, but since not all zombies eat flesh and drink blood, it could be explained simply by demonic possession.
My goal was to share my information with the lesser experienced, and I hope you can all benefit from my knowledge; I tried to put down as much as I could. If you have any questions, ask away.
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Hello ^_^ Would you like for me to call you Letter, Ephesus, or LE? Or something else?? ^_^
If I may begin, how would you define "demon?"
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Now since the best way to teach is to answer questions (in my opinion anyway), let the questioning ensue.
It's the best way to teach because it gives you direction in where to make things up.
if you are who you claim to be, give us all your knowledge without being prompted. Waiting to answer questions makes you look phony right from the get-go.
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@Daemonin: Ephesus, or Ephy, will do fine.
Now, the term "demon" is indeed an obscure one, but my definition of a demon would be one of the following:
1. A fallen Angel
or
2. The offspring of a fallen angel
Of course, this is but my definition. There are others, but I usually have names for those things too.
@thneedly: Point taken.
Give me, if you will now, the time to post all of which I can. After that, then further questions will ensue. Satisfactory?
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@thneedly: Point taken.
Give me, if you will now, the time to post all of which I can. After that, then further questions will ensue. Satisfactory?
It'll do.
Like Izzy said, tread lightly with me.
You wouldn't slather your penis in gravy and wave it in the face of hungry Rottweiler, and you don't want to set yourself up for failure around me. Both are eqully stupid and likely to cause you pain, although the former is physical and the latter is mental.
Can you dig it?
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The first post has been modified and hopefully to your liking, however I am not positive on how much longer I have, so it is quite rushed. Of course there is more to be said, but hopefully those things will be answered through others questions, or perhaps through another later edit.
@Izairyn:
By Nether to you refer to the Netherland or Afterlife? If so, allow me to say that those back from the graves in my mind are regarded as ghosts. Whether or not they have been to hell and back or changed.
My perspective? Well According to the Bible, which I believe because of its remarkable accuracy in demonology, demons are the angels who once resided in heaven but were cast out for one reason or another. The first few were the followers of an angel called Lucifer. They believed that they could be better than God, and that he was wrong in his ways. This is considered sin, and subsequently, since no sin can be in heaven, they were cast to the earth. I believe angels continue to fall, which is why there continue to be many demons today. After all, one sin and theyre done.
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My perspective? Well According to the Bible, which I believe because of its remarkable accuracy in demonology,
Imagine that! A belief system based on a book is verified by the book upon which it is based!
How ever could that be possible?!
:roll:
since no sin can be in heaven
Really now?
What about Isaiah 45:7?
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
The Bible is full of your outdated god slaying children, commanding the Hebrew people to rape women and children alike, plaguing innocent people with deadly diseases because they refused to drop their own beliefs and bow down to the religion of a bunch of nomadic barbarians, and condemning people to damnation simply because they could not follow a ridiculously complex set of rules.
Face it, your God is a petulant, power-tripping child that throws temper tantrums in the form of plagues, natural disasters, and Hellish beasts rising up from the Pit to punish innocent people.
You know why this is? Because thousands of years ago, it made sense to people to believe this garbage. The Bible truly is the greatest fantasy epic of all time, but it's nothing more. All the Bible is is a bunch of superstition, parables, and outright lies added in to influence the minds of the people that ancient priests and kings ruled over.
it serves no purpose in these advanced times, and neither do people like you.
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If that's true, then I'm amazed there are really any angels left.
Of course, in my beliefs and thought processes, I feel that both the groups of "angels" and of "demons" are neither wholly good nor wholly evil. They can do whatever it is that they so choose; neither is confined to being morally right nor morally wrong.
So... If I may, it's harmful demons you're hunting, right?
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@thneedly
First of all, I believe I was asked my perspective on fallen angels and why I view them as demons, not why I believe in them. If you want to know, I expirienced demons before I ever took the words of the Bible seriously, but since the book seemed so accurate, I now believe it word for word.
Secondly, yes that verse does say the Lord "creates evil", but not in heaven. It is what he created with free will that became evil, so yes in a sense he did create evil, but he neither approves of it or commits it. Now if you wish to say that creating evil is evil, well it came about as free will, so God truly had no hand in the matter unlees free will was taken away, but why sacrifice the free will of all because of one or two that spawn evil? His goal was to create beings to worship him and for him to love, and he wanted them to choose to do so.
Now you say that God did all these cruel things. I shall tackle each one. God slaying children. Our God is a God of war, so in times of war, true, sometimes none survived, but they recieved their due punishment. God has never told men to rape anyone to my knowledge, but of course, I wouldnt care much for that unless scripture was quoted. Then you say he plagues people because they refuse to bow down. I will ask you now for quotes, but I will say this: God punishes the wicked. Please quote all this though so I can answer more clearly. And also, God condemns no one, we condemn ourselves by sinning, and we will be punished duely.
@Daemonin:
Angels have free will as we do indeed, and indeed I hunt those who do harm to others.
Sadly now, it is time for me to take my leave, and I will lock the thread until then so I can answer all questions in a proper time frame.
Until we meet again
~Ephesus
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The first post has been improved, and I have decided to keep the thread open for discussion from now on. I hope I can be of assitance...
@thneedly:
The last thing I wanted was a religious debate, though I suppose it was inevitable. Please either create a new thread for this or do it via PM. This thread is meant to help those who are set on hunting demons.
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Nice opening post, LetterEphesus.
But I do feel inclined to mention one thing in particular...
Another common, and clear, indication of a demonic possession that I didn't see on your list (though increased intelligence is in the same ballpark), is the sudden ability to speak languages you know the subject could NOT speak before.
Also, I'm no expert on matters of magic, magik, or magick (lol). But, I was under the impression that Solomon's Key was in fact an article of witchcraft. Mostly because lack of evidence that it was written by Solomon. Would someone please clarify this matter?
-Echo
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Thank you for the addition, Echo, and though intelligence is in the same "ballpark", I see that your statement is worthy of mention.
Now as to Solomon's Key, true, there is very much a lack of evidence linking it to actually being written by Solomon, and I am fully aware that there is no evidence of it having been written even before the 17th century, but there are reasons why it can be trusted.
First of all, yes, witchcraft (or wicca) has taken the book and used it as a grimoire, but I have seen that the "Lesser" key of solomon is used more commonly. I do not believe that the lesser key was written by Solomon. I believe it was...someone else, who used the greater key as a basis and perhaps even used its means to summon a demon and learn more. But enough about the lesser key.
In the Bible, Solomon was the wisest man to have ever lived, after he asked for wisdom other than riches. This is one reason why I believe the key. This wisdom could have easily come with knowledge on such things. The Bible also says that Solomon offered sacrifices to false gods and worshipped them along with other things, and because of these sins he lost favor with God. I believe that the knowledge of the key is including here. These sacrifices to false gods, could have been the summoning and such of these demons, and God saw this as a sin.
Truthfully, this may mean that the mere drawing of these "magic circles" could be considered witchcraft also, but this is where my deductive reasoning comes in. God gave Solomon this knowledge, but it was up to Solomon to use it for good or evil. Summoning these creatures for your own personal gain is sinful, and it is punishable accordingly; and though many of these circles are used in summoning, they do not have to be used for that purpose. Knowledge is power, it is up to us how to use that power. I by no means ever have, or ever will, encourage the use of what I believe is witchcraft, and the pentacles are just about the only thing I would consider helpful from the Key of Solomon.
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Understood. But shouldn't the safest route be complete devotion in the Lord (at least from a Christian standpoint)? It's a bit of a wide stretch; and a possibly destructive assumption. One I've often pondered, but never had the gumption to act upon.
-Echo
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Honestly, I believe that if someone is truly devoted to the Lord, they would never have these problems to begin with, and if they devote themselves completely to the Lord, the problem MAY end, but there are flaws in this.
You must realize that God does not have a hand in everything, he does not play with our lives like we are dolls. Most of the time, we must face the consequences of our actions. If you jump in front of a moving bus, God may save your soul, but the likelihood is that you will be run over; saved or not saved. The same thing applies here: Mess with the devil and you're gonna get the horns. You should also know that sometimes God may allow these things to happen to test your faith, or he may allow you to be harmed to test the faith of another. Since this is the case, other things can and should be done, and I believe they must always be done in the name of Christ.
However, there are non-believers out there with these problems, and I believe it is only humane to help them even if they cannot be turned.
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So... are you saying that if someone is not a Christian they cannot possibly hope to banish a malicious entity and must rely on a Christian God or Jesus to save them?
Because if that is what you are saying I would totally disagree.
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That post proves to me that you haven't taken the time to read the first post after I edited it; which also means that you are simply lurking here on this thread to try and find some inevitable flaw, which by the way is futile, and it also means that you have totally disregarded my request to take all debates to other places.
If you HAD read the first post over again, you would see that calling and serving God, Jesus, or any other religious entity, is definitely not the only way to ward off or 'banish' these creatures; therefore I by no means implied what you stated.
Know your info before you jump to accusations.
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If I was trying to prove you wrong I could have done so and I find your attack insulting.
No need to get defensive. I was asking a question. I'm sorry I'm "lurking" or whatever, but I am not trying to disprove you in any way. I'm actually one of the few around that doesn't do that.
All you had to do was answer my question. I never accused you of anything.
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Forgive my...unproffesionality. It simply seems that there are so many out there ready to pounce and attack (as proved me to me through random PMs), so I'm sorry if I had confused you for one of them. I did not mean to offend you in any way, I just assumed you were "out there to get me".
Others, be forewarned by this; I will not take any such things, should they be intended, lightly.
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Just curious, but I (assuming you believe in us) was wondering if you hunt vampires as well. Not the demon infested, blood drinking walking corpses that many mistake for real vampires, but ones such as myself. I know there are bad ones out there just like there are bad humans, but hopefully you don't damn us all as so many have done out of ignorance or fear. I would be happy to share any and all experiences I have had with you.
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I do believe in Vampires, to an extent. And if I were ever to be confronted with a "good" Vampire, I would sheath my sword. But that really depends on the definition of "good". If he were harmless to other humans, then I suppose that would be enough to me. But if he had the potential to harm others, and simply witheld that urge, my only solution would be to find out if he could truly hold his ground. If he ever wavered, I would have to act accordingly. Of course...this is all assuming that the "real" vampires, and not the demonic ones, actually do suck blood. Assuming, because I have never actually met a Vampire that wasn't simply a strong demon possessing a corpse.
On another note, I'd be happy to hear all you have to share; via PM of course.
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Do you mean to say you actually carry a sword ?
What other things do you do take with you when 'hunting'?
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Actually, "sheath my sword" was more of a metaphor, meaning I would hold back my attack. But in case you're still wondering:
I take a very large arsenal of things when hunting, but it all usually depends on exactly what I'm hunting. Since this thread is for demons, I'll stick with that. If I'm hunting a demon, I will usually carry a Bible, some holy water (carried in water guns), rosary, my silver cross necklace (used in exorcisms, but I always carry that), rock salt, EMF detectors, Sound recorders, spray paint (for drawing pentacles), and a flashlight if I think I'll need it.
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Do you not find that using spray paint to draw geotic sigils interferes with the general intent behind their inception?
I mean you are using gas as a propellant which has a very different energetic aspect to more traditional methods of creating them.
Surely the automation of their construction is liable to diminish their efficacity, no?
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Technically speaking, I find that using spray paint is much more efficient then the "traditional" methods of creating pentacles, but that of course depends on the definition of "traditional". If by that you meant what the Key actually states, then I will explain it like this:
The actual pentacles were to be constructed of metal (lead, tin, copper, gold, iron, silver, or an alloy of these, being purified with fire) in a three dimensional fashion, or inscribed on the "virgin" paper with the "virgin" ink. However, these traditional methods serve no purpose, for the power of the pentacles is held within the exactness of their creation, for upon its sight by the demon is where the power takes place; or it is the exactness of the art which allows the demon to be summoned (which is why once they enter the circle they cannot leave). But since I take not the time to follow all of these traditional procedures, I can perform more efficiently, it is merely a matter of a steady hand and a good memory. However, my untraditional method is still proper by the Key, for it is said that whatever is to be used should be "virgin", meaning not being used for any other purpose; I do not use my spray paint cans for anything else.
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You must have a very steady hand cos whenever I've tried I get 'dribble' problems.
Imagine that you were doing one during a confrontation and you did get a bit of 'dribble'.
Would you wipe it up or just go with the flow?
Sorry if this seems a dumb question but I think its possibly an important issue for others trying to do what you do.
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I actually do have a very steady hand, but I'm not really sure what you mean by "dribble". I take you mean that your hand will shake a litte or whatnot. Well, I tend to draw the patterns at a certain pace, rather quickly, because moving your hand slowly leaves room for error, while if you move a little quicker, the lines come out straighter. Of course, I take it you could also mean that the paint might trickle since it's liquid. This is why I tend to draw the pentacles on the floor, the flatter the surface the better. Of course, with either case, if an error is ever made, you need only to go over the pentacle again using a heavier line, to cover the error. (that is, of course, unless the error is too big, in which case I suggest cleanup and the use of other drawing means in the future.)
To be honest, people can use whatever they want to draw the pentacles so long as they don't use it for anything else. Though I must say, using markers or such to draw such a big piece of work (since the prey must actually walk into it), takes too much arm work and is more likely to run dry before you're done.
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what sort of reactions do you get from people that own the properties or floors where you use the spray paint?
This is fantastic stuff! Keep it coming.
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Usually, the person in question is a Christian like myself, and is willing to do what it takes to stop the demon; since thier lives can be at stake.
But now I notice that you are not interested at all, but merely antagonzing me because you don't believe a word I say. Since this is the case, I advise you to go elsewhere, or take this up to PMs; and don't say its an important matter for others to know, because I'm sure no one will benefit from what people say when I paint up their crib.
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Funnily enough its actually the last details which convince me you are speaking the truth.
Its only someone whose actually done stuff like that that can know such minute details.
Thats the really cool stuff for me. The really small details.
I thought you handled the last question with real integrity. I was all for thinking that you were just a wanabe . You've changed my mind.
If you have genuine spiritual faith then that faith acts in really unusual ways. Its not always knowable how that faith (or spirit) will be seen by others.
To paraphrase something someone once said 'that stuff works in mysterious ways'.
I can see evidence of your faith in your description of how to avoid paint dribbles. So dont be so sure that people wont benefit from what you say when you paint up their crib. Just have faith in your faith.
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Well...thats far from the response I expected.
I must now thank you for believing me and not thinking of me as a "wannabe". I guess I should also thank you for interrogating me like that, even though it seemed irksome at the time, because apparently it can change minds. Only a few posts down and I'm already in debt lol. Well, my faith should definitely be evident; I believe what I believe wholeheartedly.
If you do happen to have any more questions, please do ask.
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Well, in order to discern what the Cherubim are, I will need to go into religion and scripture, for they are mentioned there. I will start with the most common and perhaps most well-known appearance.
You may be familiar with the "ark of the covenant". If you have ever seen a depiction, you will notice two angels located on the top cover. These, as mentioned in the Bible, are Cherubim. There is also the account of the Garden of Eden, which is said to be guarded by a Cherubim. If you need, ask me for exact verses.
Now that we've established that fact, I move on to the angelic heirarchy. Both Jewish and Christian religions hold the Cherubim as some order or class of angels in their heirarchy, while a few consider them to be a completely other race of being. Nevertheless, their name can be interperted as "wisdom", which leads to the belief that their knowledge is only surpassed by God. You have said "hand of justice". If I am correct, justice to the wicked was what the Thrones were conscerned with.
However, this does not completely rule out the idea of demons. If demons are indeed fallen angels, what keeps the Cherubim from falling like the rest?
Of course, I'm no expert on angels, I deal more with demons. While I'm no expert there either, I must say that many demons like Azazel and Beelzebub are said to be Cherubim according to the heirarchy of hell.
Then again, this is from my standpoint and view. Your definition of angels and demons is quite different, though...
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Cherubim
Does that have anything to do with cherubs? I think they are those the baby angels. The babies with wings in recent century art work?
Just a random thought.
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(in case you dint notice, regina, izaairyn answers your question in her new topic)
A fallen Seraph...
Well, from what I know, the Seraphim stand beside the throne of God, being the highest regarded rank of angels, and they emanate such a light and glory that they cannot be looked upon by any other being.
I have never, and don't plan to encounter anything of that magnitude, and as far as I know there would be little that could stop it. If I did, though, and I couldn't exactly keep distance, I would try a combination of everything I know of that repels demons. salt, pentacles, sacred objects, the whole shebang. And if the demon is possessing a person, I would find it more neccessary to render the body being possessed completely disabled then to let the creature inside hurt others.
And no, you are not wrong; demons have different power levels, some are stronger than others. And usually, the nature of their power differs.
Basically, I don't know of anything that could really stop something that powerful.
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Well, as I've stated before, the demon's goal is usually to get the possessed to commit suicide. I doubt anyone could actually deal with that. However, in cases like demonic summoning, some people are willing to serve as a semi-permanent host for the demon. The person may still be able to go about daily life, but when they willingly give a demon control, the likelihood is that the person will be practically absent from control over the body.
This can be outright deadly, as can ordinary possession. While the demon is in control, it may have no regard for its host body, seeing it as a mere tool. And if the demon is of high power, it will show disregard all the more, for the body will seldom be affected by anything. The person being possessed may die. No matter the case, it would be treated as any other ordinary possession.
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Hmmm, has there ever been any cases of a demon possessing a person cuz they happen to be of value? & the demon wants something from them or the body?
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I am a newcomer too, but after reading some of the various posts on demon- hunting and so on, I would imagine hunting a demon in general is not a very lucrative business. I am a true skeptic, I require solid evidence in order to believe that a creature such as a demon even exists. I'd truly like to see something like that, it would probably be rather interesting. For the sake of argument let me pretend that I believe demons manifest themselves, physically or otherwise, why would you want to "hunt" something like that, isn't it time consuming? Whats the pay off for you? I mean people dont usually do something unless they get some kind of satisfaction or reward for it.
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@Regina:
I suppose it is possible, but I don't actually know of anything like that ever happening. Something similar, though; I once came across a demon possessing someone because they were important, like a friend, to someone else (the someone else being the true target). Though, ask around, there might have been a case out there.
@sabman:
I don't mean to tell my life's story, but at first it wasn't actually "hunting" anything. It was just a sort of curiosity. However, as they say, curiosity killed the cat. In this case literally, and the cat was a friend of mine. Then for a while, I did it for "vengeance". Learning all I could and banishing all I could find. But then, I realized that that was not the answer, for "'vengeance is mine', says the Lord.". Now, I do it because I simply don't want what happened to me to happen again to anyone else. My reward is knowing that I'm doing the right thing; by protecting the helpless and fulfilling God's commands.
As to the time it consumes...It is very time consuming, but the reward outweighs that completely. (honestly, I'm beginning to find this thread even more time consuming than hunting...)
Also, I know at the moment that encountering something like a demon seems "interesting", but trust me, you don't want to do that. Please, just go on believing they don't exist.
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I'll take your advice & squash my curiosity this once.
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call me a fool but curiosity will probably kill me. Unless of course you can offer some advice to help prepare me in case I do find my evidence.
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Well, that is the purpose of this thread; to help those who need help. You would be wise to read the first post, and I ask that you PM me before you do anything at all. Don't worry, I won't try to persuade you out of anything you really want to do.
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Here's a random question:
Have you ever been in a situation where you took a picture of a claimed demon and had the outcome picture show anything weird? If not, do you suspect something unusual would happen? Or would it be fairly difficult to catch one on digi-film?
That'd be so cool :-D
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As far as I know, demons cannot be captured on film. I don't believe they are energy based, or ectoplasmic entities (energy being electricity...). I seriously doubt that they can be captured on digi-film. Though, it would be cool. :D!
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@ le: read the first post, actually rather impressed with the professional manner in which it was written. I will definitely pm you before I decide to seek my evidence of the existence of demons. Will definitely pm you,(if I have a chance) if I find it. Im actually interested in getting an opinion from you about what specific kinds of "tracking" devices you use? Im well acquainted with the use of electromagnetic fields in other applications of course, I worked as a non destructive test inspector for the oilfield drilling industry for 4 years, but I was the individual placing the field, with shooting boxes, 1800 ampere magnets... blah, blah, not detecting pre-existing fields.
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As I stated in the first post, demons can be tracked by their "omens". When I use this term, I mean any normal or paranormal event that occurs in the demon's presence. I have seen demons have omens like electrical storms, swarms of insects, phosphate deposits, and even death of marine life. It is hard to determine what a demon's omen is, but I have a sort of program I use to alert of certain news messages given on the internet. This way, I can better track and detect demonic presences. Now, if you refer to EMF meters, I don't generally use those when hunting the demonic, because I have no actual solid proof that they affect it the same way as ghosts do, and I'd rather not carry the extra baggage.
I will better explain omens in the next update of the first post, which is coming along well and should be done by the end of the week.
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Looking forward to it, you have very interesting work.
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@le
I too am looking forward to your next post, hopefully you aren't too busy.
@ Kain
He does seem to have very important work, wonder how many are worried, wondering how good he is at what he does?
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I dont know if i said this all ready, but all demons are not bad ( yes I think I said already but I cant remeber cause I am loopy since I just came from the hospital)
But I know a succubus who is good hearted ( you dont have to believe me)
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It has been adressed before in the thread. Yes, demons are not all "bad". Demons have free-will just as we do, and many choose to harm the human race out of envy, but it is quite believable for one to be good hearted.
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I think if I were a demon I'd get pretty bored after all this time doing the same thing over and over lol, so maybe they have mood swings and are both decent and evil lol.
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if a demon is a fallen angel, and a fallen angel is an entity that chose to defy "god", this defiance would be classified as sin. sin =wrong, or evil by most mainstream religious folks. So, following this "mainstream" way of thought, an angel that defies god commits a sin, sin is evil, therefore making the angel a demon, or evil, how then can something created almost perfect who chose to commit sin be good hearted? This would mean that mainstream thought is wrong, and in turn would mean there is an alternative. I personally would like to know alternative theory.
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Alot of mainstream thought is wrong. And I didn't say it made a demon good, but maybe sometimes they get bored and do something not evil lol. It can't redeem them because the way they were made they are unredeemable. But they have the ability to do whatever they want as is evidence by their fall. They have free will same as us.
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I think even demons deserve redemption, if they want it, for that matter if the whole mainstream christian thing is right in the first place.
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"An angel, most pious in belief and devout to the LORD, gazes down upon the mortal world. There he beholds the most beautiful woman, of God's own image; before his senses come to, his heart is overflowing with lust for her. The LORD, who knows all, knows of this, and He casts the angel down to the land of men. There, he may plead and worship the LORD all he sees fit, but his fate of perdition is forever sealed."
Basically, a demon is nothing more than an angel that "slipped up" once. He can still act as an angel in every way, but this is unlikely; he will be surrounded by God's chosen creation, made from nothing but dust, who have the ability to ask for forgiveness, while he is forever damned. He will proably envy and hate them to the point of action, and...you know the rest.
Then there is Satan and his followers. His ultimate goal is to take as many of God's favorite creation down with him to hell as he can, making war against the almighty in the process. He tempts other fallen angels into joining his cause; his plans other than that are obscure, but harming humans is an obvious goal.
In other news, the first post has been edited.
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What I don't get is, if God made angels perfect, then HOW can they slip up? They're perfect!!! If I remember correctly, they can't even CHOOSE wrong, because God only gave free will & choice to humans. & that's basically why some humans suck so much & angels don't. :?
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Lucifer was a powerful angel, and he fell. So free will was given to angels, what Im wondering, and this is slightly off topic but still relevant in a roundabout way, is.... why is god so hard on Demons/fallen angels? Is this because humans in general were born into "sin", wheras angels were not?
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Just re-read the first post, very educational, thank you.
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I hadn't read all the way through the posts so forgive if I touched on something already discussed. You hunt demons using your christian knowledge on what a demon is according to the lore and written word of your beliefs. There is nothing wrong with that. So here is the question, there are other religious perspectives on what a demon is, how do you deal with the hunting of a demon from another persons religious experience. Would your hunting techniques work say on a Buddhist or Islamic demon? I am not trying to turn this into a religious debate by any means but to successfully hunt demons one would need all available tools made available to him/her.
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@newbloodmoon
Not to answer a question for LE, but I think if you read the first post, the Oni, in particular that would cover some of your question, as far as Islam goes, it is a sperate, and distinct part of the judeo-christian faiths, actually starting with sarah, hagar, and Abraham, which would min turn mean it follows similar, if not almost identical concepts, and beliefs when it comes to demons and demonology.
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@NBM
As sabman said, and if I may add; Christian faith is not the sole tool I use to hunt demons, I use several other techniques to track, trap, and repel them.
As a side note; If anyone has any suggestions for me to make to the first post, please let me know. And also, keep in mind that my goal here is to share what I know with those set on encountering demonic forces, or accidentally so. Please try your best to keep all irrelevant questions away from this thread; you may start a new one or PM me if necessary.
(the above not directed at anyone in particular)
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Lucifer was a powerful angel, and he fell. So free will was given to angels, what Im wondering, and this is slightly off topic but still relevant in a roundabout way, is.... why is god so hard on Demons/fallen angels? Is this because humans in general were born into "sin", wheras angels were not?
I'm starting a new thread to answer and address this as it has been an area of interest of mine for a long time.
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@kain,
Definitely looking forward to that.
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In other news...
The first post was updated...not much...just a little more work put into it.
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So, Demon Hunters all over the place around here seem a bit too common. I ask you now though. Is it your place to hunt such a creature if one truly exists? When I hear the word or phrase if you want to call it that of demon hunter, all I hear is "Terrified Guy." I will explain. In this great world of ours bad things happen everyday constantly. But these bad things have a purpose to whomever they happen to. The very idea of a "Demon hunter" is a guy who has no belief in their fellow person at all. When demon hunters find their so called prey, the one thing they always look for is "Omens" or bad things that seem unnatural. Do you ever stop and think that, "Hey, the bad things that are happening might be their own fault?" Droughts are bad, sure. But then again the proper use of resources and land can do much to make the issue not so bad. Everything is connected to everything else in ways most of us can never comprehend or even know. Humanity creates its own demons and hardships most of the time, however, the hunters have no faith in others that they are able to fix and deal with their own problems.
Its easy to want to believe that some spirit is out there causing damages because of its own malice towards humanity. But this is not the case, we people are responsible for our own tragedy most of the time. Things break down and get old. When nobody checks the parts and things of an airplane, they crash. People go off in the woods take the chance of getting lost or being attacked by something that might be very hungry. If you think of a demon in human terms, you will see nothing that means anything in the long run. "Omens" and Signs and things are there only because people want them to be there.
Demons do not aim to have people kill themselves, they don't need to influence suicides other people do a great job like that. Honestly, Demons and Devils really could not care less about the affairs of people, and why should they? People do a nice job of destroying one another already, we hardly need any help.
Demon hunters are afraid that there is no balance in the world. In the presence of too much of something, eventually the opposite will arise to make the balance all on its own. Nature seems to do a fine job of taking care of itself.
Who is to say by not letting people take on their own problems and issues is doing exactly what the demon wants you to? If you save people from what ever test awaits them in what ever form it may take, you make them weaker as a person. A demon's goal is to destroy the balance and all the so called hunters are doing is helping this goal much further along then it needs to go. Everything works itself out in the end unless some egotistical hero comes to the "rescue" And makes the people as a whole, weaker and less able to resist.
Stop messing with things, people. Other people's lives are for them to live, not you. Stop messing up the balance of things. You have no idea what your doing no matter how much you think you do. The world will manage with out your "Saving" them. Its been around long before you were doing it and chances are it will still be here after you are gone.
Not everything has to be an eternal struggle against beings that were old when the world was just beginning. What chance could anybody possibly stand against something who your entire life span could be considered a press on their snooze button on their alarm clock? Too much information floods the world and nobody knows what is real and what isn't. So demon hunters, take a week off and see what happens. If the world ends, I was wrong but chances are I will be right and everything will continue on like it is now.
I read the first post of this and then I pulled out my "Guide to the supernatural" book based on the really good TV show, and they almost read the same. The part about the omens and other details are all in there, some were taken farther but the basic idea is the same. Demons may exist but I seriously doubt anybody has ever been able to "Hunt" them down and kill them. You might be hunting something, but the only thing that makes them demons is that you believe that they are, much to the delight of the actual beings out there, not to mention their amusement.
There are some things out there that only have the power and limitations that we give them, the will power of the mind is impressive. If you want to hunt a demon, then no matter what it is or used to be anymore, it is what you want it to be. Only when you believe in them will they truly exist and be a threat. And nobody believes in the power of a demon more, then those who hunt them.
Z.
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Hi Z
great post.
I do tend to agree with you that Demon Hunting seems to be a current cultural phenomenon drived from mass exposure to media entertainment. (I dont have tv myself so i am not really up to date with whats around.)
I also agree with you that people should start taking more responsibility with their own lives.
However you seem to be saying that we should not interfere with things. To me this denies the possibility of help or intervention. This is a really tricky issue. I mean where do you start drawing the lines.
Lets take some examples to look at
A man breaks his leg. A doctor helps the bone the set and the leg heals perfectly.
A man has bad back pains. A chiropractor realigns something and reduces the pain.
Someone else has extreme emotional swings. An acupuncturist balances their energy out and the problems dissappear.
A parent smacks their own child to eliminate an unhealthy behaviour.
Lets get a bit more bizzare though.
A stranger in uniform kidnaps and terrifies someone elses child when they see them hurting a kitten.
A man in a skirt shows an investment banker how to alleviates his guilt for beating his wife by praying to a long deceased virgin.
An man decides to walk home from the bar rather than drive after readiing a poster about another guy running down a child.
Or a schizophrenic is cured of his delusion by two men dressed up as CIA agents errecting a crucifiction cross on a hill opposite the hospital.
All of these are actual examples of intervention.
It can be argued that perhaps we should leave interventions and help to officially recognised professionals. Again there is a counter argument to that. I'll give you some personal examples here.
As a Police officer I used to run programs on 'restorative justice'. It was a fashionable idea copied from Muaori social structures. On one occasion there was a team of 8 seasoned social workers taking the course. In light discussion on the first day I asked if any of them could tell us about a time when they had a real success . No one answered. I pressed the question.
It turns out that with nearly 80 years of combined experience sitting in front of me there wasn't one example. I was utterly dismayed. These were the recognized professionals sitting in front me. The self same people you would be sent to when the sh*t really hit the fan.
A couple of days ago I had a phone call to say that mey sisters work colleague had just been murdered. She was in her late 30s, married, two young children. It turns out her husband lost his job recently and had a breakdown. He was put on tranquilizers. It got worse then next thing we know he has killed her then committed suicide. There was no former history of mental illness.
If I could turn back the clock a couple of weeks and have a complete stranger enter these peoples lives and do some really bizzare exorcism to cure him. Well if that turned out to work, you know what I'd take it.
Often intervention seems to be a really fine line between compassion and self serving interference. But throw me a life line when I am drowning I'll do my best to swim towards it, even if they do jerk off afterwards about what hero they were.
Personally I dont share the same views as Letter E about much of what he is doing. However having talked to him by PM I am convinced he has had genuine results that have helped people. His method may have bizzare side effects but then so do anti-psychotic drugs.
We can easily get lost in arguing about the reality of entities but lets not lose sight of the important parts though. That is basicaly the issue of suffering. Traumatic death, madness, depression are very real for those involved. Avoiding or removing these things is tangible. That is real for the people involved. The method of the cure is a luxurios discussion we can have afterwards.
My current view on life has gotten me thinking that help and interference is a really mysterious subject. I think that the ability to affect and alter the course of other peoples lives has little to do with wether they are qualified, educated, scientifically accredited or accomplished. I would say that it is something like the ability to work with fate and that it can be achieved either aware and concious of this link, or unknowingly.
If you know where I can learn this skill please let me know.
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I know nothing of this subject, and actually really have nothing useful to add to the topic, but I cannot let myself go without saying this.
Oldbill, that post was one of the most bizarre, ridiculous, and absolutely beautiful posts I've ever seen on this forum. Thank you for typing that work of art; reading it was an absolute pleasure. Thank you, sir.
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Correct Bill. But take it this way, perhaps going to the doctor, or seeking help from people who can fix the problem is the most effective way for people to stand up for themselves. It is when people take action themselves that they are able to beat their own demons. Hunters seek these problems out actively and when that happens people become weak. If the exorcist came on his own accord and nobody asked them to come. This forces the belief of the absolute worse situation that could be. It is when help is sought is when it really counts. Doctors don't go to people who break their legs. Paramedics only come when they are called. People have to seek help on their own. It says somewhere that God only helps those who help themselves first.
As for the no history of mental illness prior to people doing crazy things, its unfortunate but sometimes things like this happen. I know if I don't eat on a regular basis, I get mean and destructive to others and myself. The details of life are so many and what we see, may not be what somebody else sees. It's alot like fear, one person can see a spider and a picture on a wall, somebody next to you might only see the spider. Secrets are apart of life and perhaps we may never know what is making people do what they do. I do know that those who fail their tests on a personal level and give into the violence, did the easier thing. Alot of times the so called professionals really don't know jack about anything, more so the mental specialists then anybody else, them not having one real accomplishment doesn't surprise me. Now days when somebody is depressed or angry, they just throw them on pills that mess up their brain chemistry so much you would be hard pressed to feel anything at all. I personally don't trust the mental specialists and their methods.
I would say that interventions do have their place, but it will do no good if the subject does not believe in the power. If somebody believes something is watching from them from the shadows, then to them this is their reality and regardless if anybody can see it or not it only matters to them. And if somebody comes along and believes them, and tell this person its a mystical demon, the hunter will strengthen the belief that there IS actually some other worldly power. It is a reverse intervention so to speak. And once the Hunter and victim both believe in the same thing, the hunter will do some kind of mystical rite that the average person on the street will have no choice but to believe. Then like the placebo effect, the problem is gone.
Hunter goes away and victim resumes normal life. But what happens if something bad happens again and the savior isn't around to come to the rescue, or "assured" them it would never come back. That person has a very bad week.
There is one thing I should mention. The term demon was once used in a benevolent sense. Like everything else our happy mainstream religion took the word demon and twisted it. Every culture has them and not all of them are considered evil, at the most they cause little issues when not appeased, but nothing serious. I do believe in evil but think Demons have generally gotten a terrible reputation. In Islam, angels are perfect and obey only the will of God, the Dijnn are born from fire and the humans from the earth. The latter two can choose their own path and do evil and good at their leisure. Iblis refused to bow before the First human, and was cast out into the earth. He is not the enemy of God, though. Just the enemy of man. God reigns supreme over all his creations, and the devil is just another one of those. According to Islam anyways.
Demons were allowed to roam free to test humanity, for better or worse. Gods, all of them, seem to prize weakness over strength. The Angels were created, then the humans. So they were forced to protect and watch over the weakest of his creations. Personally, I don't see why this would be such a big deal, but whatever.
So when the test comes, and it will come for us all someday. Wouldn't it feel better to know that you were able to get through it on your own, and obtain any help you needed instead of somebody out of nowhere coming to the rescue? People only get possessed when people let them in and I am pretty sure that it does not happen all that often.
Bad things do happen, but we have to look into ourselves for the strength to stand up to them and deal with what ever the aftermath of that might be.
And consider, why would a Demon want to bother with your soul anyways. These are creatures obsessed with power and dominion if we are to believe what people say. If you want to find a demon so badly. Stop stalking the back alleyways of the urban world and look where they are hiding in plain sight, look to the leaders of the world for your demonic influences. Why only effect one soul when you can bring ruin to an entire nation from with in, or plunge an entire world into the depths of darkness.
I do believe in Demonic actions, and evil and the general horror of the world. But I do not believe that demons would be so eager to stalk the average person so readily unless they needed a quick restart of interest in the subject of the supernatural and the general fear. This is not hollywood, this is not a TV show. If they are to exist, look to where the real power is, and where its being used, and how. There is something to be afraid of, but it is not what people are trying to tell us here, I am positive of that. How, you ask. Just look at the world around you and turn on the news. Its filled with darkness everywhere. If these so called hunters want to do something, the best thing they can do is educate people on how to defend each other. You would think that would be the ultimate aim of a hunter, to tell people how to not cower in fear of something they couldn't possibly understand, but how to stand up for themselves.
If we treated everything this way we would be in the dark ages still. A mass of people scared of something, and they don't even know why they are to begin with. If everybody was able to ward off the powers of darkness, would it it not stand to reason that there would be very little of it to deal with before long? A part of me thinks that these people have the deep desire to feel special and crave attention in an area that nearly everybody could understand with just some simple reading and a little extra knowledge. I have found it much more effective to show people how to do things, instead of simply having them depend on me all the time.
Knowledge is power. Hence eating from the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil got us kicked out of paradise, if we could know the difference of good and evil, then we could know other things too and could create our own paradise of our own design. God knew this, we still haven't figured it out yet.
Z.
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sorry but again I did not care for anything any of ya'll said (cept Izzy).
I live with a demon....to be exact a succubus. She is a kind soul. She only preys on inmates. Yes she still hits on people and yes she is revolved around sex BUT she can control those urges.....And she is very smart and her and two other demons give me all the info I want.
And I care for her like I would my daughter. So for Izzy if you could PM me I would answer your questions.
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Ingredients for something. Yeah exactly. My guess is that most of the time Demonic powers are content in living and whispering in the ears of leaders of the world telling them that everything is going to be okay as long as they keep going on this path. Advisers to leaders influence to leaders because the leader only knows what they are told by others these days. But terror is an emotion that any evil would love to spread. Some horrible crime to get people talking. Possessions are actually very difficult to achieve most people these days as whole don't open themselves up to evil forces in general. They don't read forbidden books or obtain evil artifacts that were made from the bones of some legendary monster, the most they might do is play with the Oujia board(That in itself is a whole other story). Most people just go about their day to day lives watching TV and going to work. So evil forces really, really have to work hard to possess anybody. The more people become disconnected from the spiritual world around them the less chance there is for anything like this to happen.
Evil preys on weakness in general. What this weakness may be is different for everybody and sometimes it comes out in ways we never expected. People blame all kinds of things on destruction. Video Games to Music. But the thing is we can all look at the same thing and each of us can walk away with something different. If evil really does come through the radio waves and stuff, it is not the music that is to blame, it is the way the person heard it. Truly terrible things happen to create an aura of despair amongst a population. Despair is the enemy of all humans, I believe it is the main cause of the whole fallen angel thing to begin with. When people begin to think there is no longer any hope for the human race, or begin to question the sanity of some brutal crime and it doesn't make sense people get confused. Some learn to let it go, others fall into a pit of horror they never really recover from fully. Despair damages the soul and sense of self and creating this in people is exactly what all evil aims to do, crush the spirit of every living thing it encounters.
One at a time events pale in comparison to the nation wide events, you know like the shape the economy is in now, or the war that continues to rage that almost nobody wants after they look past the company line the government and the media feed them on their own. Sometimes plans require violence and destruction that can undo an entire town with the surgical strike of just one person. I agree with that, but more often then not, more so now then before things are beginning to work on a much bigger scale that most people can not even comprehend or even see the whole thing. When people stop looking they stop caring, and that is where evil wins the best.
Too much information is often all that is needed to make people just give up completely. I don't believe that winning the immediate battle on the streets of middle of nowhere USA is going to do anything to win the war people should be fighting with a lot more energy then they are right now.
And Terror, you say you live with a succubus...can I see a picture or something. I do say it is hard to believe that a sexual predator of any kind would have it in them to be caring and only feeding on inmates. Most predators, the spiritual ones are not kind or caring. Or have any urge to control anything of that nature but to rather indulge in it. Oh, and by the way. Succubi and Incubus demons attack people in their dreams, well the Succubi do for sure. They drain people of their energies and long enough their very life. As for the other two demons she, controls? what kind are they. You can't just come in here and say that and not explain!
If they give you all the info you want, perhaps I could test their information gathering skills? I don't see what the harm in that would be. But I would beware your guest true intentions if it is true. Had any bad dreams lately?
Z.
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No, not since the succubus came to stay. And she is trustworthy. You wouldnt have any Idea what I am talking about so leave it at that. And .....and....I...no I wont say it.]
Also dont judge someone if you dont know them. Est-ce clair?
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Well well well.I'm absent for a few days and I come back to such intelligent and well-written posts (which,without need of mention, came from some very intelligent and thoughtful people). Thank you all for contributing, especially you, Zodiac, but sadly, this thread was not the place to do that. As I stated in the first post and in several places throughout the thread, this is for people who not only believe in demonic forces, but seek to do something about them; the information here is to help others. However, being the good sport that I am I will give my two cents on this, but mind you, I only skimmed through your posts because I am, well, short on time.
You aren't the only person, Z, to say such things about "hunters". Do I have a right to go and hunt such a thing? Yes, I believe I personally do. I don't know where you stand on religion, but I believe in my heart that God has set this task before me, as part of some grander plan he has in mind. If you don't believe in such a thing, then I simply say this: I have the knowledge, ability, and experience to put these unnatural and evil forces to rest. I cannot stand by and watch them torment people who might not even know what they're dealing with. I feel a responsibility to help, and so I do. This thread is an example.
And, I must disagree with you on the point that demons and devils have no need to interfere with humans and humanity. Instead, humans are there sole goal. As I have said before, my definition of the term "demon" is a fallen angel, or the offspring of such. Since this is the case, those angels under Lucifer's command seek out humans to defy God. They want to get people to before they ever hear the Good News, so their souls are snared in hell, away from God forever; the curse these demons themselves must endure.
Then, why should I interfere if the person is going under some sort of test? To be honest, if it is God's plan for this person to endure this test, then a "hunter" wouldn't even be in this scenario; God would make sure of that.
What I am hunting only exists because I believe it is there? Hmm....sounds an awful lot like "thought-form" theory to me.
On the contrary, I only hunt what is actually there. That is how I got started in all of this, that is why I stay. Trust, if the mind had enough power to stop these things from existing, I wouldn't be in this "business."
You say that my first post reads like a T.V. show, in this "Guide to the Supernatural". If that is the case, then I should tell you that T.V. shows don't always invent things for ratings. Many things I've seen on T.V. was taken from something very real, and no, it wasn't real because people saw the T.V. show and believed it into existence. >.>
I didn't read Oldbill's post, and I only skimmed through your response, but again I see remnants of the thought-form theory. If you really want to believe that these things only exist because we imagined them into being, then by all means, go right ahead, but don't try to convince me of that. I know what I have seen and experienced, and honestly, I don't have to prove anything to you. No one does.
I saw that last bit on the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. i don't know exactly what you meant there, but if you really want to discuss it, PM me. I have a sermon on it. Lastly, I didn't read your last post. If you think there was something in there, PM me.
@Terror: The idea seems reasonable, though I do have a hard time actually believing it. But of course, that is totally besides the point.
Now, sadly, I come to conclusion. I mentioned several times the purpose of this thread, but people don't seem to get that this isn't up for debate here. The Goal was to inform others, not to discuss the topic of existence of demons or hunting or whatever else you want to discuss. That is for PMs and other threads. To keep my thread from further "infection", I will lock it. If you have a question you want answered or such, PM me, and I will add the information to the first post asap and inform you when it has been added. (I see now that this would have made the thread a lot better had it been thought of earlier.) And always remember, I am more than open to discussion, in fact I love to do so, but only in the proper and designated places.
I should also inform you all that, like earlier this week, I will be mostly absent, due to some...complications on my part. I may sign in every now and then to check PMs, but don't count on it for a while. I hope this doesn't cause anyone too much trouble. I will let you all know when my activity shall resume normality. Until then, Farewell.
~LetterEphesus