[banshee72]

Are hell hounds good or evil? I've hread that they could be good or bad. I've seen them myself and I am not sure if I should be worried or not.    I usually see them with the Hat Man near by but not all the time. Are they just watching over me? Or do  they have something evil planned? What should I do? They don't really scare me though, the just startle me. What do you think about hell hounds?

I would love to hear your opinions and anyone else who has had the same experiences with these ghostly black dogs!


EDIT: Not to change the subject but when I lived in my old place we would see this shadow cat. We saw it all the time. It lived with us lol

[FlamE]

What do I think about hell hounds? I think that reading about them is interesting but I know they are not real. Seriously , when are you people going to stop bringing paranormal subjects into your lives to make it more interesting ? Jeez.

And to answer your questions: They are evil. They have something evil planned , something that goes by the name of 'mental disorder' and that draws closer and closer with each hell hound you see. What should you do , you ask? You should research more , be more skeptic and stop being a kid.

[matthew321]

I have not been on here for a while, but I feel I can contribute to this topic.

FlamE please tell me why you think they are not real. Please offer me a kind argument because I am under the impression you are a close minded and a bit rude. I don't care if you are right or not but politeness is a requisite for good debate.
I like arguing (I mean "debating") far more then I enjoy being right.

As for the Hell hounds following you, when do they follow you? For how long? Where are they? What are they doing? What do they look like? How do you know they are Hell Hounds? Do you like them?

Answer these questions and you will be getting your own answers from them. (If you can imagine that sentence being said in a "Jedi" kind of mindset, that would be appropriate here)

FlamE please tell me why you think they are not real.

Absence of evidence of their existence should be reason enough for everyone to think they are not real. It is not for FlamE to explain or disprove the existence of "hell hounds" but for banshee72 or you to explain or prove their existence...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AXBvmd-xcw

I am under the impression you are a close minded

Really? How often must I link this video about how the "close minded" argument is completely invalid...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

and a bit rude. I don't care if you are right or not but politeness is a requisite for good debate.

Since when? "Politeness" is purely a culturally-defined phenomenon. Moreover, you ignore the whole field of politeness theory; FlamE's "bald on-record strategy" is perfectly acceptable in debate.

As for the Hell hounds following you, when do they follow you? For how long? Where are they? What are they doing? What do they look like? How do you know they are Hell Hounds? Do you like them?

Answer these questions and you will be getting your own answers from them. (If you can imagine that sentence being said in a "Jedi" kind of mindset, that would be appropriate here)

That appears to be nonsensical reinforcement. I would ask instead:
1. Did you photograph these creatures?
2. Did they leave any physical evidence of their presence?
3. Did a reliable independent witness also see them?
4. Did you report this stalking to any authority?

If the answer to any of these questions is "yes" then perhaps the claims can be considered seriously. If  not, then explain why anybody should take them seriously.

[matthew321]

Jake that video was rather informative but I still stand by my argument and will offer reason why I made such statements. (In this case is that evidence?)

I directed the question to FlamE of why HE believes these "Hell Hounds" are not real. I am perfectly fine with the idea of insufficient evidence not being able to promote valid argument. However, FlamE said

What do I think about hell hounds? I think that reading about them is interesting but I know they are not real. Seriously , when are you people going to stop bringing paranormal subjects into your lives to make it more interesting ? Jeez.

"I know they are not real" The "I know" part is what I want explained. Even with the current lack of evidence I want to know if that is indeed the basis of HIS argument.  I was not able to ascertain that from "I know they are not real".

Again the close minded argument I presented comes from "I know they are not real and "when are you people going to stop bringing paranormal subjects into your lives to make it more interesting ? Jeez." Instant explanation of situation and dismissal of other argumentative points. Is this not what the video you referenced would define as close minded?
I'm not saying the person intended to be close minded, I simply am getting that impression from what has been stated. I am still willing to accept his argument.

I am not familiar with "bald on-record strategy" I would like this explained. I have absolutely no idea what you mean so I cannot comment on this point.

Now my questions serve the a similar purpose to yours. It does not matter if these "Hell Hounds" are real or not. What matters is if the individual them self is convinced they are real. The belief will be enough to attribute much phenomenon to these "Hell Hounds".

I asked those questions so that I can get the answers from the individual's perspective, I am trying to get their whole argument.

Your questions Jake seem to be able to provide evidence to outsiders. You desire some proof and this is reasonable. So I also will ask, is their any proof? Or only testimony?

But even if they are not real, ("Hell hounds") I need to know if the individual believes they are real. So I ask questions based on the assumption that the individual them self has reasoned their existence.

I have yet to say whether or not I believe the case. I am missing important parts of the argument so I cannot make that decision yet.

[Angelus]

Banshee72. PM me about your experience. This thread has been turned into a "proof or no help" situation. I am not here to debate with you if hell hounds are real or not. Tell me about you experiences and I will provide you with the folkloric information connected to your experience. Remember people, banshee isn't here to offend anyone and shouldn't be treated as such. If someone is here and is asking a question it is the duty of the community to answer unless the person is an obvious attention seeker in which case a report to the mods should be made. If this person has upset you with their question you are not obligated to answer. We have a supernatural based community where plenty of people believe they are weres and vamps, and we attack someone for asking a question about a being that in my country (Scotland) has a very high sighting rate and is found all through our culture and legends. This is not up for discussion here. If you wish to debate the existence of these creatures start a new thread, Banshee does not need to defend the original question. A question was asked. Answer it or don't!

I think the general attitude of the skeptics shifted somewhat after realising that banshee72 posted a huge flurry of new topics in the space of a matter of hours, all claiming some vague paranormal/supernatural experience, and then disappeared, the original intent quite probably being a "shopping trip" to advertise her own discussion forum. Let's face it, this girl is living a life that even the Winchesters might find a little too hectic, if we accept all the tales of alien visitation, demonic menacing, poltergeists, hellhounds, ouija boards blah blah blah

It may all have required a little more thought and effort than the usual stuff, but at the end of the day spam is, essentially, spam.

(I thought long and hard about whether to post this part of my response to your comment, but I eventually decided that you are after all an educated, mature, man-about-town who will take it as robust debate rather than mistake it for thorny criticism.)

If someone is here and is asking a question it is the duty of the community to answer

It isn't "the duty of the community" to give the answer that the OP is fishing for, however.

a being that in my country (Scotland) has a very high sighting rate and is found all through our culture and legends.

Actually, it is far more commonly reported and significant in folklore in England (Black Shuck, Barghest, Gytrash, Yeth hound et al) and Wales (Cŵn Annwn, Gwyllgi et al) than in Scotland.

The suggested response model you put forward is flawed. Take a scenario in which a child is afraid to go to sleep at night because they believe a monster lives under the bed.

Your model would have us tell the child that, yes, there IS a monster under the bed, it is actually the bogeyman (or bogle, I believe, north of the border?) but if we put a plate of meat on the floor each night it will eat that instead of you and be satisfied. Now off you go, sweet dreams! And don't forget the steak...

We have now reinforced the child's belief in the non-existent monster, plus introduced a pointless ritual into their existence by which they are forced to modify their behaviour in a vain attempt to influence reality. This is the road to superstition, obsessive-compulsive disorders, neuroses and unnecessary anxieties.

Were I a child psychologist confronted with such a case, I would consider it borderline child-abuse.

The actual model for dealing with childhood night fears is rather more complex, and it is beyond the scope of my answer to detail it in full; suffice to say, one of the key tenets is: "Tell the truth. Emphasize to your child that monsters are only pretend characters on TV or in storybooks. It is a parent's job to help her child separate real from imaginary characters."

Now, in this instance, Banshee72 is not a child with bedtime fears. She is an adult, married woman. Soothing her with reassurance that the monsters under her bed are real, but can be satisfied with the metaphorical plate of mince or banished with the magic crystal from Zannussi, is not really a credible strategy. Far better "to help her separate real from imaginary characters..."

As an aside, there is an interesting article in Psychology Today by Peter Gray entitled Why Young Children Protest Bedtime: A Story of Evolutionary Mismatch. As he notes, "Bedtime protest is unique to Western and Westernized cultures.  In all other cultures, infants and young children sleep in the same room and usually in the same bed with one or more adult caregivers, and bedtime protest is non-existent. What infants and young children protest, apparently, is not going to bed per se, but going to bed alone, in the dark, at night." I am attracted to his evolutionary theory that:

Until a mere 10,000 years ago we were all hunter-gatherers.  We all lived in a world where any young child, alone, in the dark, would have been a tasty snack for nighttime predators.  The monsters under the bed or in the closet were real ones, prowling in the jungle or savannah, sniffing around, not far from the band's encampment. A grass hut was not protection, but the close proximity of an adult, preferably many adults, was protection.  In the history of our species, infants and young children who grew frightened and cried out to elicit adult attention when left alone at night were more likely to survive to pass on their genes to future generations than were children who placidly accepted their fate. In a hunter-gatherer culture only a crazy person or an extremely negligent person would leave a small child alone at night, and at the slightest protest from the child, some adult would come to the rescue.

The lighter side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21us_nOV4gI

[Angelus]

I find your part about bedtime very interesting and a fantastic topic of conversation. Our childhood beliefs are part of an evolutionary survival skill unnecessary in modern day. Also you are correct. Do not give the answers the OP is fishing for. If that was the case then we would tell all "demon hunters" to use shotguns full of rocksalt and purchase an American Muscle car. But do give sensible answers. This is a supernatural community. We are not here to just tell someone something doesn't exist because the individual answering dose not personally believe. Just offer the facts you have and move on or ignore the post and leave it for the moderators. I am also aware that black shuck is more common in English and Welsh folklore. We still do have cases in Scottish mythology too. British mythology is quite spread. Also comparing answering a question to telling a child about the bogieman is quite different. This person is an adult. We are not in the business of scaring children. I have a small daugher myself and when she asks about monsters I would be a terrible parent to tell her the folk tales instead of reassuring her fears. But if an adult asks I will gladly tell them the information they seek. I have no right to say that they are lying or of unquiet mind. If they are attention seeking or lying what harm has been done. They asked a question, it was answered. If, like you are saying, many posts have been made, all of a separate supernatural occurrence that is obviously someone making them up then just report it to the appropriate mod and comment on your actions and reasons. I do love the psychology today cut and think that is a worthy topic on another board. To end, giving Banshee information on a supernatural creature on a supernatural board it one of the reasons Monstrous exists. We are not here to tell you what doesn't exist but to discuss the supernatural. It is plain stupid to come to a supernatural based community if your answer to people who genuinely believe in the supernatural is that it doesn't exist. With that logic I should spend my days on the Scientology sites telling them that they are morons. If someone on monstrous asks a monstrous related question and you hold information this person may find interesting, share it. Also don't double post. There is an edit button.

[FlamE]

Ok. Let me begin by apologizing if you think my response was rude. It wasn't meant to be interpreted that way, it is my way of approaching childish posts like the one banshee72 made.

As for matthew321, I don't believe that I have to present proof that something that hasn't been proven to exist exists.

I agree that since this is a paranormal discussion forum, I should have approached it differently. But , come on , banshee72 put it in such way that I could only pretend to have been another poor victim of the evil plans of Hell or a total skeptic. I reckon my response to be offending to banshee72's beliefs , but it's beyond my ability to reason with people like this.

As for matthew321's post about my saying that "I know" that hellhounds are not real, why would you even pick on me for saying that in the first place, when someone else just said that she/he knows that she/he's just seen hellhounds , the Hatman and a shadow cat ?

And Angelus, I didn't come here to try and force other to abandon their beliefs and share mine. If this post would've put in a mature and objective way, I would've also answered in an objective and possibly , less harsh way. But come on , we can't just pretend to be lunatic kids just so others won't find our answers rude.