Jesus was not a warrior.

[creepy]

http://frjakestopstheworld.blogspot.com/2004_03_01_frjakestopstheworld_archive.html

Relevant and insightful.

Edit:  I realize that I should have put this in the Apocalypse forum.. My apologies.

[Loki]

I do not believe that evil angels seize human institutions and pervert them. Rather, I see the demonic as arising within the institution itself, as it abandons its divine vocation for a selfish, lesser goal. Therefore I would not attempt to cast out the spirit of a city, for example, but rather, to call on God to transform it, to recall it to its divine vocation. My spiritual conversation is with God, not the demonic.

   - Walter Wink, The Powers That Be; Theology for a New Millennium, p. 197.

Do U guys agree ?

[Scotty]

I enjoyed that article vary much Creepy.

Most informative towards the Christian and Islam clash. There is allot on the discussion table for this, and yes these two...'faiths,' do indeed fit such a category. I for one can't understand how much more bias Christians will take, in relation to Jesus and turn a blind eye for it to simply continue, year after year. And to see the whole Islamic World go bananas over a one cartoon, just comes to show that the two may stay blind to breed there death. Then again, define what it is to be a so called 'True' Christian other then Muslim.

[Scotty]

I agree loki...

That is no doubt the must important fact in understanding how the demonic functions these days. All walks of faith need this issue raised for the better while they still can.

(Vatican bells ringing)

[The_Seeker]

I actually disagree with some of its points.

One way of understanding these unconscious motives is to use the model of the Hegelian Dialectic. A primary thesis creates its opposite, an antithesis. The synthesis of these two ideas creates a new third idea, which immediately creates a new antithesis, and the cycle starts once again.

The antithesis to capitalism was communism. With the fragmentation of the Soviet Union, capitalism appeared to have established itself once and for all as the dominant idea. What was not anticipated was the emergence of a new antithesis from a source no one had ever considered; Islam.

I don't believe Hegelian Dialetic was really meant to apply to "unconcious motives".  And though the author explains the relations of the thesis and antithesis, the example given is somewhat flawed.  Yes communism is the antithesis but then the author starts getting sloppy.  Islam is most certainly not the antithesis to capitalism since the two deal with extremely different subjects.  Second, this isn't the first time Islam has been considered an opposition.  Crusades anyone?

More and more, it looks to me that what we are seeing is Christianity (primarily capitalist, especially in its Protestant form) squaring off to take on Islam in a holy war (the ultimate oxymoron).

Again, religion and economics are two different subjects.  Though that's not to say the two haven't influenced one another.

Although, I can agree with its final point.  It is absolutely necesary for the two faiths to stop antagonizing one another if we are ever to hope for peace.

Most informative towards the Christian and Islam clash. There is allot on the discussion table for this, and yes these two...'faiths,' do indeed fit such a category. I for one can't understand how much more bias Christians will take, in relation to Jesus and turn a blind eye for it to simply continue, year after year. And to see the whole Islamic World go bananas over a one cartoon, just comes to show that the two may stay blind to breed there death. Then again, define what it is to be a so called 'True' Christian other then Muslim.

However much I believe that freedom of speech is a must, I also believe that there should be a responsibility with it.  Just because you can say something doesn't mean you should.  Also consider the reaction to David Irving's denial of the usage of gas chambers in Aushwitz.  A somewhat minor detail in comparison but still sparking quite the uproar.

[maggot man]

Also consider the reaction to David Irving's denial of the usage of gas chambers in Aushwitz. A somewhat minor detail in comparison but still sparking quite the uproar.

Fascinating. Anyone in Europe who has the misfortune to run afoul of the immensely powerful Jewish lobby, is perfunctorily jailed, with not so much as the semblance of a fair trial to stand in his defence. And yet Christians think it a noble act of  free-speech to advocate the continued attack on  Islam's holy founder.

Christians need to cease being so bloody hypocritical. Muslims have never stooped to desecrating the sanctity of Jesus whom they revere as a prophet. So naturally,I fail to see what Scotty Boy was driving at when he carelessly declared that   '' I for one can't understand how much more bias Christians will take, in relation to Jesus''.  And lest anyone forget how fragile the mask used to conceal Western double-standards is, I would bring to mind a certain incident.

When the Beatles became audacious enough to proclaim themselves as being ''bigger than Jesus'', angry mobs in the U.S torched their albums, and radio stations followed this example of anti-Beatles hysteria by imposing a ban on their hits. Whatever happened to freedom of expression there,Uncle Sam?

[Searif Bogard]

its true, jesus was not a warrior

warrior according to the dictonary: A person who is actively engaged in battle, conflict or warfare; a soldier or combatant.

[omnipotentoculus]

The problem with this article is it misses the point entirely. Jesus is not a warrior in in the sense that he is a savior. The "warrior" Jesus arises from the final battle that occurs during Armaggedon. It has nothing to do with his original teachings in the gospels.

The points about Islam and Christianity are well taken. All three Abrahamic traditions preach peace, but sadly, the human beings who follow and observe these faiths are imperfect and prone to the same failings as other faiths. It is not Christians who are hypocritical, but human beings who happen to be Christian. Same with any large group.

What must be noted is that generally, violence and seeming hypocracy arises not from the moderates, but from the extremists. Pat Robertson is not a moderate, nor is Osama Bin Laden. These men do not represent the greater part of the actual faith. They are severe deviations from what is taught.

The issue of David Irving is terrifying. The odd part about that situation is that it is not the Christians or the Jews who are jailing him, but the secularists. Europe has lost sight of how to be tolerant. Tolerance involves allowing all opinions, offensive or not. Instead they are censoring anything and everything that is offensive, so, under the guise of protecting people, they are actually silencing them. I do not agree with David Irving, but he has a right to be a lunatic and speak his mind.

Finally, this whole thread is odd in that the article linked to is rather poorly suited for the topic. Jesus as a warrior has nothing to do with the Hegelian Dialetic. Jesus is not the theisis nor is he an antithesis or a synthesis. He is an answer, not a proposition. Satan is not his antithesis but his enemy. Even the antichrist is not his antithesis, he is actually the one who paves the way for the second coming. The clash during the end times, if looked at in a thesis, antithesis perspective, is simply the final and ultimate victory of the original thesis, not a sythesis of Satan and Jesus.

[maggot man]

It is not Christians who are hypocritical, but human beings who happen to be Christian. Same with any large group.

A fact well-spoken and one that serves as a reminder against blatant stereotyping. I have been guilty of letting emotion supersede reason in this instance, and for that I am sorry.

[omnipotentoculus]

No worries MM, I sympathize